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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2006 - 01:24pm PT
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Thank you everybody for the great info and opinions!
Chris - re. the night vision thing, I am worried about that too - what they do when you go for a consulation is measure your (iris opening) - your dilation I guess it is to see if you may have a problem with night vision as it can depend on this measurement. Mine is 5mm which is borderline. They also meaure your corneal thickness (they should be doing this and more) to make sure you are a good candidate for the "flap".
If you go for a consult make sure you only wear glasses for at least two weeks prior to even just the consult or they will not be able to take accurate measurements and give you an appropriate opinion - I wear my contacts all the time (during the day) and they change the shape of your corneas temporarily.
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becca21
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jun 21, 2006 - 01:30pm PT
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WOW! -12 and -13???? I think I'm one of the blindest people I know. Oh how my father's side of the family gave me such horrid eye sight... dammit =p
I'm about a -6.75 in both eyes and hate waking up to blurred vision everyday. I sometimes sleep with my Night & Day Contacts for up to 3 days but need to take them out cause they stick to my eyes from desperately needing to be cleaned.
Crusher: In doing Outdoor Sports, my Focus Night & Day lenses hold up really well while I'm Climbing or Snowboarding. They haven't popped out of my eyes at all and they feel comfortable throughout the day. The type of Saline Solution REALLY plays a part in contact lens comfort. Have you tried 'Clear Care'? If you have chronic dry eyes like I do or even just struggling with comfort of your lenses this is the BEST stuff I found that cleans your lenses inside and out. The only thing is you can't out it directly from the bottle to your eye or you'll be flushing out your eye for an hour. Otherwise, it's great stuff.. I got my boyfriend hooked on it and I'm never letting it go. I noticed that when I'm outside if my contacts are dirty, they don't stay in place well enough... but with 'Clear Care' I don't have that problem.
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DavisGunkie
Trad climber
Davis, CA
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Jun 21, 2006 - 02:43pm PT
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my wife just had lasik done in april. she was basically told that she needed to not touch her eyes or do much besides sleep for 3 days after.
she had some swelling in one eye that was more than they liked but that was about it, if you keep up with the drops to keep things moist, everything should heal quick. she is now like 20:15 in both eyes, and she says it was one of the best things she ever did.
she hasn't had any issues with night vision either
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2006 - 02:54pm PT
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Rok,
Cool photo - you look like John Lennon. Or maybe that's just me and my poor eyesight! :)
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 21, 2006 - 02:56pm PT
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Tradisgood has a good point. If you have the surgery, you have to arrange for a year's worth of follow up visits with a home optometrist/opthalmologist. The surgeon will insist on doing the day after and possibly week after exams, then you have to look after it yourself.
This isn't an issue if you have no problems. However, if you travel to have the surgery, e.g. to Canada, and then are in the 5% that needs some follow-up, it could be a nuisance.
There was front page article in the New York Times yesterday on eye surgery and the U.S. navy. Turns out that they used to put the bright boys with poor eyesight into submarines. Now those guys get eye surgery, and all want to fly fighters.
Yes, imperative to use only glasses for several weeks before the surgery, and ensure you're otherwise in fine fettle. Rested, hydrated, fed, etc. They'll tell you how long before, then if anything add to the length of time.
Anders
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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DON'T DO IT!
It's you're eyes, fer gawd's sake...
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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on the off chance you didn't see locker's thread
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=942165
There's so many cases of lasik working out well for so many people but I still lean on the "no" side for myself. I would def say no if I had super high altitude goals in mind as there have been probs assoc w/ lasik & super high altitude.
The chances of something going wrong are sooooooo small. But even w/ a -9.5L & -8.0R, I've mostly decided to work with what I've got. Lots of spare contact lenses & tiny saline bottles in my gym bag, my climbing pack, my other climbing pack, etc.
edit: I think of the options (or lack thereof) if it didn't work out. I don't know if they do corneal transplants for fkd up lasik procedures & I've heard stories of eye immune (transplant) reactions.
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BrianH
Trad climber
santa fe
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A 16 year old Israeli dude, legally blind; was convinced he'd never get laid unless he could drive.
He came up with "Yoga for the Eyes."
http://www.amazon.com/Yoga-Your-Eyes-Meir-Schneider/dp/6305642834
After I stepped on my glasses and it took 3 weeks to replace them, I did some of his exercises. I also took off the old pair I was wearing whenever I could. When the Doc took my measurements he was surprised because my 'scrip had gotten weaker. That stuff works. Don't know if it will address your particular situation, but it's a thought.
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jstan
climber
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Those eyes are the only ones you have. Do your homework.
Reference
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0846/is_8_21/ai_83911029/
“The new facts about LASIK: Most patients literally can't believe their eyes after surgery — they can see better than ever before. But then, for some, the problems start – Health”
End Excerpt
I wore glasses from age 12 mainly because I wanted really crisp sight at distance. Now that I am older it does not seem quite as important. I use glasses only when legally required. My eyeglass prescription has not changed in 30 years and apparently I have exceptional night vision. Darn useful that.
My arms are getting shorter but that's OK. Not going to mess with something that has worked reliably for one third of the life of the Republic.
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Short4Bob
Trad climber
Morgantown, WV
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I was about -12 with -5.75 irregular astigmatism pre-LASIK (done in 2001). I am now about -1.25 with about -1.5 regular astigmatism post-LASIK, meaning I still wear glasses but thank goodness do not have to wear hard contact lenses.
That said, I can't wear soft contact lenses, either, now, because my corneas are too flat for contact lenses. I have horrendous night vision, to the point where I shouldn't be driving at night, and I ended up with a posterior vitreous detachment in both eyes, meaning that I'm at higher risk for retinal detachment than I was pre-surgery (high myopes are at risk for RD anyway).
Some people have great results, some people don't. I was one of the don'ts, although I appreciate not having to pay 700 bucks for a pair of glasses any more. If I had to do it over knowing what I know now, I would have passed.
Read all the horror stories you can, and decide if you don't mind the possibility of those things happening to you. Statistically it may not be likely, but the long-term results aren't looking quite as shiny as the early ones.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Got my eyes done in India for $600 a few years ago. Best money ever spent, like a miracle.
I was far sighted. I needed reading glasses before and still need them but half the strength.
Don't know about mono-vision, Suggest you simulate it with contacts for some time until you're used to it.
PEace
Karl
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Clod
climber
Frogtown, LA, CA
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Sep 10, 2009 - 01:47am PT
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I don't want to spray about what I already said on Locker's thread. I know everyone's physiologically different. Surgeons, results and complications vary. But . . . here are the highlights of my own Lasik experience:
--one of the best decisions I've ever made-almost miraculous
--zero complications
--excellent night vision with zero halo or fuzziness
--20/15 and 20/20
--perhaps some slight variability when transitioning to altitudes over 10,000 feet, but very minor, and my eyes soon accommodate
--my surgeon was Dr. Robert Maloney, in LA
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sprout
Trad climber
clovis, ca
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Sep 10, 2009 - 03:57am PT
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I work for a doctor who was one of the first to be doing lasik, and is a medical monitor for other refractive FDA trials.
To have lasik, you just need to have realistic expectations.
The goal of lasik is to REDUCE your dependency on glasses.***
Any doctor who says he'll get you out of glasses completely is pretty arrogant. Now, usually yeah, you do get completely out of glasses, but if you end up with a little minus left over, its not the end of the world and has still met the objective. Being -1 vs -7 is a completely different ball game. Now you can drive if you need to, you can see the clock on the wall. Your reduced dependency on glasses will be remarkable.
**If monovision is a question, undoubtedly try it in CTL first. Make sure it works before you get it done permanently.
If CTL are working okay and you are a -1 to -2.5ish... I probably wouldn't do the surgery. The ideal patients are -3 to -7 or -8ish. The reason being is these people are limited to what they can do without glasses/CTL. They have the most to gain as far as reducing dependency on glasses.
**You should be out of soft CTL for 2-3 weeks for final measurements. The longer the better. Hard lenses it should be much longer. 4-8 weeks. We'll do people as short as 4 weeks if we feel confident there hasn't been large changes in the measurements over that period.
I had lasik 11 years ago, and my wife just had it done 3 years ago. The night vision is akin to wearing old CTL. It only really is noticeable when I'm tired and on the road late (only see the starbursts on taillights).
**If your surgeon is using a "wavefront" system, glare/halos will be reduced more than if they aren't using said system.
Surgeons will all have a strong opinion on how to make the flap. "All laser lasik" seems to be a bit of a buzzword. My doctor did some of the FDA studies for the laser that cuts the flap and still uses the microkeratome (blade). He shows a video in lasik seminars of pulling a flap back that's made with a keratome vs made with the laser. The keratome flap is smooth and retracts easily. When retracting the laser flap it looks like you are separating velcro. The laser doesn't hit every spot and essentially makes hundreds of little gas bubbles in the middle of your cornea so there are micro tears that attribute to higher levels of postop inflammation and corneal edema.
Postop care involves wearing clear plastic shields on your eyes for a few nights (so you don't rub them at night). You'll use an antibiotic and NSAID for a few weeks. After as little as 24-72 hours your cornea has essentially healed over. You hear horror stories about dislodged flaps, etc. It is REALLY hard to do and truthfully pretty rare. Your cornea has cells that act as pumps pulling fluid in - pulling the flap on.
PRK is the same procedure but without the flap. However, we scrape the top layer of your cornea off to hit the inner layer (stroma). While that top layer (epithelial cells) heals in 24-48 hours, it takes considerably longer to get stable vision. Inflammation is much higher and vision fluctuates much longer. I hate seeing PRK post op patients. Their vision is never as good as the lasik patients. With PRK 50-70% of the front of your cornea has to heal whereas with Lasik, just the semicircle of the flap edge has to heal over. Kind of hard to explain - while the flap is through the cornea depth-wise, the only part that really has to heal is that semicircle line vs a huge surface area centrally with PRK.
There is a lot to consider, but it really is a fairly simple procedure and ideal for a large percent of the population provided they have the means ($). I was a -6 and -7 and my life is sooo much better now. Sunglasses, living without CTL stuff everywhere in every bag etc. At the very least go find a surgeon and talk with them. Most do a complimentary consult (at least around here) to see if you are a candidate (appropriate Rx, corneal thickness).
Altitude affects are fairly minimal. The largest problems associated with this were related to RK where radial incisions are made. These expand at altitude and really mess with your vision. At altitude with lasik there really isn't anything to expand or change. VERY little risk here.
You'll find a lot of visual therapy programs out there. Do these exercises and you won't need glasses anymore! Most of that is a bunch of baloney. To give it a percentage - may 5-10% effective. Really not going to change things for you physiologically. There are some docs who will under-correct all their patients for this very reason. If i don't give you all your Rx, your eyes won't soak it up. They end up just not seeing as well as they should. Imagine its cold outside (-20F)and you put a soft shell jacket on. It's better than nothing, but your down coat would be so much more appropriate. Are you getting less cold by not using the down jacket? No, you're just more cold (ie: you're not seeing as well as you could/should be)
i can't imagine climbing with glasses or CTL. ugh. annoying.
There is no shortage of info on this world wide web, but if anyone has any questions for an insider... shoot me an email.
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L
climber
Rebel L rides again
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Sep 10, 2009 - 03:42pm PT
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Although Crusher started this thread THREE (count 'em: 3) years ago, it still seems relevant, to say the least. Thanks to a spammer for reviving it.
Lasik is the best thing I've ever done for my eyes. When I first posted about it, it had been about 2 years since the surgery. I was euphoric. Near and distance vision were 20/15, outdoor activities were much more enjoyable sans contacts or glasses, no more chemicals in the eyes--woohooo! Freedom!
Now that it's going on 6 years, my reading vision has deteriorated somewhat (primarily due to 8 hours a day of computer work in poor lighting conditions), so I use reading glasses if the print is small. But the distance vision is still great, and no building callouses on my eyes from wearing contacts, or getting weekly eye infections, or scratching my cornia from trying to removed dried-out contacts, or having to pack all that eye-gear when I want to climb or camp or hike a mountain, or going blind while swimming, etc.
Still highly recommend it--they've probably perfected the technique even further. (I had got double astigmatism in both eyes, and it corrected for that, too.)
I'm the world's biggest chicken where any sort of med procedure is required...Lasik was a breeze...less painful than having your teeth cleaned--I kid you knot.
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BrianH
Trad climber
santa fe
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Sep 10, 2009 - 04:22pm PT
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"It's funny how spam is now becoming disturbingly relevant."
I'm new here and was recommending a book that seemed relevant to the topic. But I'm unfamiliar with the netiquette here and if posting links to commercial products is considered undesirable, I won't do it anymore.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 10, 2009 - 04:32pm PT
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I haven't had Lasik, but I have had cataract surgery in both eyes about ten years ago. While I'm still not quite 20/20, I'm close enough to be able to drive without correction. I still use glasses, but they're far thinner than of old, and I'm extremely pleased with the result.
Cataract surgery differs from Lasik. The former replaces the natural lens with an artificial one. Lasik re-shapes the natural lens, which is left in place. Still, if my results are any indication, the results will astound you -- pleasantly.
John
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Sep 10, 2009 - 04:40pm PT
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I was -6.5 in both eyes, but with little astigmatism. However, I had realtively thin corneas, and combined with my -6.5 had only the option of using the wavefront laser to make the flap.
Had it done two years ago by supposedly the top guy in SLC.
Results have been perfect. 20/15 and 20/25. No dryness, no night halos, no altitude issues up to 11K.
I could read license plates on cars on the way home from the operation.
Obviously, everyone's different, and there is some risk. But I'd have no hesitation in recommending the guy I went to.
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bldr
Trad climber
roseville
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Sep 10, 2009 - 04:45pm PT
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If you are going to get Lasik do one eye at a time.
Do not listen to anything the doctor says that goes against this, the risk is simply too high.
My wife has serious vision problems that are the after effects of DLK. She progressed to stage 3/4 DLK within 16 hours of the surgery (both eyes), this was done by one of the most well know and respected Lasik surgeons in the area.
Now 23 months later, still has poor vision that can not be corrected with a lens. The good eye can hit 20/20 on the chart on a good day, the bad eye has never beat 20/70 and the "fuzz" that causes that lack of vision cannot be corrected with glasses, contacts, or a lasik "re-touch".
I know a lot of people who have had a great experience and great results, but if/when something goes wrong it can be devastating.
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crusher
climber
Santa Monica, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
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Brian,
L was talking about Locker, don't worry. Your input is appreciated. Locker - I haven't read your story - will do so when I have some time...
Yeah I was surprised to see my old thread come up, but the info is still relevant and it's good to hear more personal stories.
To date I have NOT had the LASIK. Too busy, still too chicken and actually haven't had (knock on wood) any problems lately with corneal ulcers or anything else.
I am a good candidate for it - I have thick corneas, pupil size ok re. the night vision, and excellent eye dr. here in L.A. who is one of the pioneers, lots of family who've had the surgery done with him, etc.
My near-sightedness has not worsened which is good, -6.5 in one eye and -7 in the other. No astigmatism. I'm getting a little bit of age-related far-sightedness (i.e. need for reading glasses) but it's not bad enough yet to get reading glasses - the holding-something-a-bit-further-away trick is still working.
I certainly wouldn't expect perfection from LASIK, but the freedom from contacts, glasses and the subsequent irritation/occasional infections would be nice. Still on the fence!!!
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jstan
climber
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Sep 10, 2009 - 07:44pm PT
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At a minimum, before risking one's eyesight a couple of excellent and appropriate specialists who do not do lasik should be consulted. You need to understand all the potential complications they see after a detailed examination of your eyes.
This is due diligence. If you do not do due diligence and it goes badly ten years down the road guess how you are going to feel for the rest of your journey.
Here is a trick worth its weight in gold. Before doing it, sit down and put yourself in the specific frame of mind that you may encounter down the road. Sit there and soak it in.
Then ask yourself if the gain is worth the risk.
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