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P.Rob
Social climber
Pacomia, Ca - Y Que?
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Aug 25, 2012 - 06:30pm PT
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For sh*ts & giggles
"Now we see how the astronomical evidence supports the biblical view of the origin of the world. The details differ, but the essential elements in the astronomical and biblical accounts of Genesis are the same: the chain of events leading to man commenced suddenly and sharply at a definite moment in time, in a flash of light and energy."
"There is a strange ring of feeling and emotion in these reactions [of scientists to evidence that the universe had a sudden beginning]. They come from the heart whereas you would expect the judgments to come from the brain. Why? I think part of the answer is that scientists cannot bear the thought of a natural phenomenon which cannot be explained, even with unlimited time and money. There is a kind of religion in science; it is the religion of a person who believes there is order and harmony in the Universe. Every event can be explained in a rational way as the product of some previous event; every effect must have its cause, there is no First Cause. … This religious faith of the scientist is violated by the discovery that the world had a beginning under conditions in which the known laws of physics are not valid, and as a product of forces or circumstances we cannot discover. When that happens, the scientist has lost control. If he really examined the implications, he would be traumatized."
"Consider the enormity of the problem. Science has proved that the universe exploded into being at a certain moment. It asks: What cause produced this effect? Who or what put the matter or energy into the universe? And science cannot answer these questions, because, according to the astronomers, in the first moments of its existence the Universe was compressed to an extraordinary degree, and consumed by the heat of a fire beyond human imagination. The shock of that instant must have destroyed every particle of evidence that could have yielded a clue to the cause of the great explosion."
"For the scientist who has lived by his faith in the power of reason, the story ends like a bad dream. He has scaled the mountain of ignorance; he is about to conquer the highest peak; as he pulls himself over the final rock, he is greeted by a band of theologians who have been sitting there for centuries."
Dr. Robert Jastrow
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 25, 2012 - 06:32pm PT
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I just bought a shotgun, Ronnie, we may need to go shootin'/Climbin' soon.
Teach me to clean a bird?
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damo62
Social climber
Brisbane
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Aug 25, 2012 - 06:36pm PT
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blasphemize, Bluey, blasphemize?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
merced, california
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Aug 25, 2012 - 06:52pm PT
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"Punk Shoe Ate Equilibrium."
End Times x Infinity = an infinitely repeating cycle. Or does it?
Ripley's Dis-Believe It or Not:
"No, I don't know that atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. this is one nation under God."---George H.W. "Burning" Bush, 1987.
Mr. Rational sez go to Youtube and check out the 8:02 minutes of "Atheist Riddle Solved."
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 25, 2012 - 08:53pm PT
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10-4, Ron. I'll be in contact.
Why are Atheists so loud about their belief in nothing? I dunno.
I don't even know what a f*#king chukar is, bro. I'll shoot one though...
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shit tooth
Trad climber
Oklahoma City, OK
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Aug 25, 2012 - 09:10pm PT
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Learning the scientific origins of earth is much more thrilling than a story that even a 7 year old can comprehend. I see the impermanence of life and know that I truly should live the way I want. I like the intricacies of a vast and old universe.
Overall, its not that I weighed out the pros and cons of either lifestyle and picked accordingly. I picked the most logical, factually based system that I could see. To be truly logically honest, I suppose you should be agnostic... But on the other hand, we should all be agnostic to big foot, mermaids, and other mystical things, because you cannot prove they don't exist. Proving a negative is near impossible.
One last thing, it is nice to be able to look at people of all different religions in the exact same light. All your beliefs are silly, but I will still treat you the same because I was once a believer as well.
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shit tooth
Trad climber
Oklahoma City, OK
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Aug 25, 2012 - 09:21pm PT
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bluering, we speak loudly because religion allows so much evil. Also, it promotes dumb theories (i.e. the earth is 12k years old, god made the universe in a week, languages came about as gods punishment for a tall building, two of every animal can fit on a boat etc etc)
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 25, 2012 - 09:22pm PT
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Proving a negative is near impossible.
God is a positive and has therefor been proved for millions of years.
Boy are atheists so stupid ......
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Aug 25, 2012 - 09:30pm PT
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Taking it "neat" means taking Bluring just as he is, no preference that he be different.
Fact is, some people struggle mightily with beliefs - that God does nor does not exist. Or whatever.
But most of this is just so much mentalizing. You end up in the same place.
JL
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 25, 2012 - 09:35pm PT
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bluering, we speak loudly because religion allows so much evil. Also, it promotes dumb theories (i.e. the earth is 12k years old, god made the universe in a week, languages came about as gods punishment for a tall building, two of every animal can fit on a boat etc etc)
Religion allows so much evil? So what is the genesis of good, man? If you try to nit-pick the Bible, you have no faith. The Bible is only a record of people's understanding of the past. It's a press report. Doesn't mean the sh#t didn't happen, they just reported what they saw, or were told.
The Gospels were, by all reports, pretty accurate. As for your silly 'built in a week' argument, you have to understand they used different calenders back then. In the Old Testament, why do you think dudes were living to be 800 years old?
If evil does exist, as you say, doesn't there have to be a 'force of good', or God?
A logical person would conclude that evil besets good. What is the genesis of this balance?
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shit tooth
Trad climber
Oklahoma City, OK
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Aug 25, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
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proving something doesn't exist is to prove a negative. For example, prove to me without a doubt that you've never murdered someone... You can't. That is why I say it is slightly more logical to be agnostic, but by that argument its just a logical to be agnostic in every other mystical being.
There have been 2,800 unique gods that have been recorded in history. It is part of the human condition to want there to be somebody who takes care of everything. I take it you don't believe in 2, 799 of them so we're nearly the same bluering :D
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 25, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
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Dr F -- "let's see ..."
What can you see since you're blind and your mechanistic science is blind.
Dr F -- "If your religion is ...."
If = guessing.
I told you again and again and again.
You are blind as a bat and are a true mental speculator with no ultimate clue.
God is beyond you're silly mechanistic scientific conclusion and theories.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 25, 2012 - 09:42pm PT
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Taking it "neat" means taking Bluring just as he is, no preference that he be different.
Fact is, some people struggle mightily with beliefs - that God does nor does not exist. Or whatever.
But most of this is just so much mentalizing. You end up in the same place.
JL
Um, no. I know what f*#king "neat" means, bro. I love whiskey. You mince the words like a master ninja.
Why don't you just say, people believe different shit! Quit trying to be a thoughtful author and just f*#king speak your mind.
What I wanted to know, is what you believe. Are you Christian? Agnostic? Jewish? Muslim? Zoro-Astrian?
Sorry. I like you, but now I pissed....
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Moof
Big Wall climber
Orygun
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Aug 25, 2012 - 10:00pm PT
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I worship Ra. Dozens of pyramids can't be wrong.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Aug 25, 2012 - 11:00pm PT
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Bluring, I'm not "trying" to be anything. I'm just not hooked into the entire mental aspect of all of this because it has almost nothing to do with reality.
Reality is the geyser that arises in our awareness. Taking this "neat," without extruding it through beliefs, takes a pretty good set of balls, IME. You make it sound like I waver, like I have some moral imperative to make some definitive statement but the geyser - thar she blows.
Meanwhile Craig is demanding that our mental content - be it truth or delusion - is apparently a bigger deal than the geyser itself - meaning our interpretation is bigger than the shizzle itself. Or maybe our interpretation (truth, belief, delusions, definitive religious statements) IS the shizzle.
That much said, our thoughts and beliefs DO create our reality -so what's a man to do.
Shizzzzam!
JL
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 25, 2012 - 11:08pm PT
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No having to imagine what life would be like…. Its already being lived… no bullshit
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Aug 25, 2012 - 11:16pm PT
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Not some geyser of self indulgence in delusional folly that seems to satisfy your spiritual quest
That she blows . . .
The funny thing is that that rant is part of the geyser, and what I think or believe and profess about it, how I quantify or describe or feel about it mean nothing.
JL
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 25, 2012 - 11:33pm PT
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Fair enough, Largo. You never really answered my query as to your faith, and I see why you cannot.
Bottom line, I guess, is to follow your own line. And be true to it.
Just pick a good line.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 26, 2012 - 01:02pm PT
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Cheers, Riley, I dig hangin' with you too. (even though you're politically misguided...hehe)
Hope to see you again soon, my brother!
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justthemaid
climber
Jim Henson's Basement
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Aug 29, 2012 - 10:02am PT
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I was raised... nothing.
Nothing at all. My parents raised me in a completely religion-free home. They weren't the least-bit anti- religion. They actually never had a word for or against as I recall. Our family just sort of.. ignored it.
Life's a lot simpler in Atheist-land. Live for now since when you die... you're done.
PS: Thanks for the nice post about me on pg1 honey.
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