99 pounds of plutonium now on Mars...

Search
Go

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List
This thread has been locked
Messages 21 - 40 of total 57 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 6, 2012 - 04:12pm PT
We belong in space. We came from stardust and we should return there.

Our constituent components came from space / stardust, we did not. We are a composite organism and only 1/10th of our cells are 'human'. We are and will always be a product of Earth's recent ecology and that ecology cannot be taken with us, reproduced, or transplanted elsewhere on timescales which would allow humans to colonize other worlds. And biology of long-term intergalactic space travel? About as likely as unplugging your refrigerator for thirty days and expecting to eat anything you left in there.

pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Aug 6, 2012 - 04:13pm PT
Space exploration should take a backseat until we find a way to consistantly feed the millions of starving children on this planet. imho.

I thought this as a ten year old while watching the lunar landing and believe it today.
High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
Aug 6, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
until we find a way to consistantly feed the millions of starving children on this planet

The consistent lack of show of ecological savvy on this site continually amazes me.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 6, 2012 - 05:08pm PT
Oh, don't get me wrong - I'm all for manned and unmanned space flight. Hell, I'd triple NASA's budget tomorrow if it were up to me. And I've been a fanatical scifi person my whole life, but the microbiologist in me thinks people shouldn't have unrealistic expectations about the prospects of ever leaving the Earth on any permanent basis - it just ain't going to happen microbiologically speaking. This is our spaceship and we should make the best of it.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 6, 2012 - 05:28pm PT
Most people don't know we're only 1/10 human either. The limitations aren't technical, they're ecological and evolutionary. You don't have to look any farther than biosphere experiments or the conditions on the space station to understand that we live and exists as part of an ecology which can't be reproduced as a technical act - it's a product of evolution and the current conditions on the planet and won't fit in a bottle of any size.
happiegrrrl

Trad climber
www.climbaddictdesigns.com
Aug 6, 2012 - 05:32pm PT
And biology of long-term intergalactic space travel? About as likely as unplugging your refrigerator for thirty days and expecting to eat anything you left in there.

Once we become capable of intentionally liberating that which is *us* (commonly referred to as 'the soul')from the physical body, we will have surpassed the problem of life/death. Not to mention feeding everyone, of course.

Maybe this sounds insane but - I don't think it really is; I think we're on the way, with our electronic lifestyles. Eventually, I believe, people will no longer accept the inconvenience of being tethered, and along with the toxicity which we have been steeping ourselves in fr the last few hundred years - necessity will intervene.

Less than ten years ago, the climbers version of Facebook was climbing.rec. Fifteen years ago, most of us didn't have internet in our homes and if we used email, it was on a company computer. Twenty years ago, graphic artists burnished Letraset to paper to create text for graphics.

Where will we be in another ten, fifteen, twenty years? Nowhere recognizable today, I think.

healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 6, 2012 - 05:47pm PT
Maybe this sounds insane but - I don't think it really is

As someone with a background in both biology and computer science I'd say we won't survive as a species to see such a day even if we could begin to understand how our brains and consciousness work. Lovely idea, but not a realistic one I'm think.
pud

climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
Aug 6, 2012 - 05:49pm PT
some of you obviously dont know how many GREAT and commonly used things we have today came from the space program, let alone the hundreds of thousands it employs.

oh yeah, i forgot about tang.
froodish

Social climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 6, 2012 - 06:02pm PT
ever hear of VELCRO?

Yep...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velcro

Velcro is a company that produces the first commercially marketed fabric hook-and-loop fastener,[1] invented in 1948 by the Swiss electrical engineer George de Mestral. De Mestral patented Velcro in 1955, subsequently refining and developing its practical manufacture until its commercial introduction in the late 1950s.

Certainly there are some things that have emerged from the space program that are used in everyday life, but that effect is usually overestimated and a bit of an urban myth.

viz: Tang:

Tang is a fruit-flavored drink. Originally formulated by General Foods Corporation food scientist William A. Mitchell[1] in 1957, it was first marketed in powdered form in 1959.[2]

Sales of Tang were poor until NASA used it on John Glenn's Mercury flight,[3] and subsequent Gemini missions.

Since then, it was closely associated with the U.S. manned spaceflight program, leading to the misconception that Tang was invented for the space program.[4][5] The Tang brand is currently owned by Kraft Foods.
HighTraverse

Trad climber
Bay Area
Aug 6, 2012 - 06:12pm PT
Ed was wondering where the PU238 came from.
Why our old nemesis and new collaborator: Russia, of course.
From Wikipedia on PU238
The United States stopped producing plutonium-238 in 1988; and since 1993, all of the plutonium-238 used in American spacecraft has been purchased from Russia. In total, 16.5 kilograms have been purchased but Russia is no longer producing plutonium-238 and their own supply is reportedly running low.
.
It is estimated that to restart production will cost between $75 million and $90 million over five years.[7] Since the DOE would be responsible for producing the plutonium-238 for NASA, the two agencies want to split the cost of restarting production
.
Between 3.3 pounds (1.5 kg) and 4.4 pounds (2.0 kg) would be produced per year to support NASA's robotic science missions, although if future human missions require plutonium-238 then even more would need to be produced.[7] The Advanced Test Reactor at the Idaho National Laboratory and the High Flux Isotope Reactor at the Oak Ridge National Laboratory are both seen as potential producers.
cintune

climber
Midvale School for the Gifted
Aug 6, 2012 - 06:35pm PT
Take one down pass it around 98 pounds of plutonium on Mars.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 6, 2012 - 07:16pm PT
I think we could put a permanent self sustaining (or at least many years capable sustaining)colony on Mars.

I would suggest the moon as the next step.. long term colonization ..but the safety of coming home in a few days if we make some bad mistake along the learning process. Then once we have learned enough ..take it the next step and send a well designed fleet of ships with redundancy and extra resources and rotatable crews to Mars.


This is the mindset that made me a climber. NASA wasn't going to Mars so what was the point of being an astronaut?

I've lived quite well in conditions approaching those found on Mars with hella less resources than NASA could get.


Deep in my soul I have always Identified with Captain Cook, NASA, and the Olympics. I beleive that when we try incredible things we all benefit in amazing ways.

fear

Ice climber
hartford, ct
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 6, 2012 - 09:13pm PT
It suprises me how many here like Dingus don't get "it". I guess that inner drive to really explore new things and places in the face of extreme risk is fairly rare even among climbers. I wouldn't have guessed that.

When I was taking hang-gliding lessons I thought it was the best friggin' thing since good 'ol sliced bread. I remember asking my instructor if it was ok to advertise a bit for him at work. He told me not to bother since most people wouldn't be interested. I couldn't imagine someone not wanting to fly if they didn't have dependents. I mean who doesn't dream of flying? Lots of folks I guess. He was right.

I'm no badass. I'll never fly a squirrel suit near solids. I'll never put up new hard alpine routes at high altitudes. I haven't the balls to strap myself to the top of a glorified ICBM like the Apollo guys. But I've always had the utmost admiration of people who do. Maybe not the squirrel suit guys but the real explorers at the cutting edge of the possible.

Does anyone here really think humanity could last forever on Earth?

I remember fondly sitting somewhere on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon so long ago. The air was thin, cold, bone dry. Something poked me in the ass so I shifted my position on the rock I was sitting on. Coral. Ancient fossils of Coral and other sea creatures festooned the entire massive rock I was sitting on. At 8,500'+ in a desert in Arizona.

We're meant for more and our time here is brief.

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 6, 2012 - 09:14pm PT
First It may be easier than we think. We may find that we can live quite well on Mars.

2nd

“The moment one definitely commits oneself, then Providence moves as well. All sorts of things occur to help one that would never otherwise have occurred. A stream of events issues from the decision, raising in one’s favor all manner of unforeseen accidents, meetings and material assistance that no one could have dreamed would come their way. Whatever you can do or dream you can do, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it. Begin it now.”

3. Man can go to the stars. It is doable. When I was a child we were merely sure that there were planets out there. Now we know they are more common than stars.

4. Mankind has accomplished much in the last 2 hundred years. We can do waaay better and we are every year.

5. Why not? We spend way more money on things that destroy us than it would take to do the project.

6. Adventure brings out the best in our race. We need more BEST.
Kalimon

Trad climber
Ridgway, CO
Aug 6, 2012 - 10:32pm PT
I'm vacationing in the Western U.S., as I do every summer. It's remarkable how many dead and dying trees there are, and how little snow there is in the mountains. I'm also reading a book that describes bison herds 50 miles long and 25 mile wide, back in 1870. Lots of change. What's it going to look like in 2100, when our grandchildren are walking around?

The poor Earth will probably look like Mars currently does.
BooYah

Social climber
Ely, Nv
Aug 7, 2012 - 12:53am PT
Whoa, don't be raining on the parade, there, podner.
Science Fiction has been becoming Science Fact for as long as it's been around.
Winston Churchill wasn't just talking about Americans. All Humans do that.
climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 7, 2012 - 12:56am PT
Why climb?

lol

Same reasons

But on a global scale. Galactic actually

were gonna die.. lets do something.

If it were not for great adventures you could fold this monkey race up for all i care..

Nuke us and get it over with all at once so no one is left to cry about it.

Either that or let us do something great..

climbski2

Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
Aug 7, 2012 - 01:13am PT
[Click to View YouTube Video]
jstan

climber
Aug 7, 2012 - 01:20am PT
The problems of intergalactic travel are so immense that travel to any system takes 5 times longer than the entire time our species took to evolve!

One rather nasty scenario does appear possible. Tremendous progress is being made in our observational capabilities. It is not unlikely that we will, one day, be able to determine whether a planet is habitable.

So there we will sit. on our degraded planet, knowing full well there is a much better one

that we can't get to.
Mighty Hiker

climber
Vancouver, B.C.
Aug 7, 2012 - 01:32am PT
Well, let's hope that the remainder of Curiousity's mission goes as well as it has so far - although it is fueled by much less than 99 pounds of plutonium. 4.8 kg of plutonium 238 dioxide, to be exact. Hopefully the lander and rover will learn all sorts of interesting and puzzling things, bearing in mind that if sound evidence of current or past bacterial life is ever found on Mars, it will almost necessitate a human mission, to figure it out. It'd be one of the biggest discoveries in human history.

If our observational capabilities ever get good enough to accurately determine the existence of an extra-solar planet of about Earth's mass, at a Goldilocks distance from its star, with a significant component of oxygen in its atmosphere, we'll have a real conundrum. It may be habitable by humans, and with current models an oxygen atmosphere almost has to be a result of biological activity.
Messages 21 - 40 of total 57 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
Return to Forum List
 
Our Guidebooks
spacerCheck 'em out!
SuperTopo Guidebooks

guidebook icon
Try a free sample topo!

 
SuperTopo on the Web

Recent Route Beta