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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Must have been all Dems on the city counsel. fattard
that's just arse-wipe
Offer something constructive for a change.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Yep. Check. Volcanic activity.
Long Valley Caldera. The second largest caldera in the USA next to the YellowStone Caldera, ie "Supervolcano."
She's gonna blow again. Lol.
(Eventually, geologically speaking. It's only a matter of time. So yea, get out while you can.)
;-))
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Argon
climber
North Bay, CA
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I'm sure there was a stunning level of incompetence, greed and corruption at their town council. That seems to be par for the course for California municipalities. And now the town and its taxpayers are stuck with the mess - but I wouldn't mind seeing the plaintiffs take it on the chin too. Mark Rosenthal apparently now owns the original developer's position and doesn't seem like he needs our sympathy:
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703775704576162782615538432.html
http://www.rosenthalestatewines.com/
They should just give him a lifetime MVP pass and tell him to pound sand. I know how I would feel about even one dollar of my taxes going to this guy.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Government should never be *partnering* with private business.
People who work for government just don't have the professional calibre business savvy needed to survive in the real world, so they're constantly being hustled, duped, and eventually bankrupted every time they enter into some asinine public/private *partnership*. Government is just not smart enough.
It's like playing golf-for-money with Tiger Woods. Only an idiot would think it's a good idea.
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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Serves them right for closing June mtn
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Duluth would be paradise if the population was just swapped with that of Fargo.
Other swaps:
Cabo San Lucas - Newport Beach
Paris - Rome
Grenada - Japan
Mojave - Detroit
Sin City - Vatican City
you got it now, Robbie
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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The ski industry is dying because the boomers and speculators have priced out the families.
There's actually quite a bit of talk lately to the effect that California is losing its middle class generally, particularly when one studies who entered and who left California.
It's like playing golf-for-money with Tiger Woods. Only an idiot would think it's a good idea.
Actually, Tiger doesn't strike me as a hustler. Now playing with the late Sammy Snead was a different matter. As Snead liked to say, "An even bet just ain't fair. I'll show you how to get your rightful advantage."
California has had many Chapter 9's filed, but very few by cities. Mostly, they've been rural hospital districts that can no longer sustain their facilities because of the trend toward greater specialization in delivery of medical services. I was counsel for the Creditors' Committee in one such case, and represented secured bondholders in two other cases.
By and large, the cities (as opposed to Orange County) that filed Chapter 9 petitions invested too much municipal money in projects that didn't return as projected. In general, the cities were also burdened with executory labor contracts that could not be rejected except under bankruptcy law.
I don't know when cities will learn that if a developer wants to "partner" with a city, the developer will take all the upside and the city all the downside.
Promoters of California high speed rail should watch and learn.
John
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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People who work for government just don't have the professional calibre business savvy needed to survive in the real world, so they're constantly being hustled, duped, and eventually bankrupted every time they enter into some asinine public/private *partnership*. Government is just not smart enough.
lol
the mayor runs one of the local appraisal businesses.
mammoth-- like most ski towns --is run by the local business elites. of course, business elite in mammoth means yr still a yokel when it comes to dealing with the sort of capital that runs all colonial economies, largescale corporate investors from out of state or out of country who are prepared to ride out the boom-bust cycles that have been notorious in the rural west for two centuries now.
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James Wilcox
Boulder climber
The Coast
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I heard, but have not personally seen in print, that the FAA notified the city manager(or maybe city planner) about some of the airport building concerns early on. That person decided to "sit on it" while the MLLA was still doing the airport renovations. Developers may be greedy, but it does seem there was a certain level of deception or bad faith by the city council.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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what I tend to miss at mammoth, as a southern californian, is the noise. i was really, really looking forward to the roar of jetliners filling mendenhall couloir the next time i want to take that little jaunt up laurel. but i understand it can be downloaded onto an ipod.
What’s up with all the meddlesome minnesotans showing up on ST all of a sudden? Uff-dah—-stay in the land of fewer puddles than Manitoba and have a little lunch.
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zBrown
Ice climber
chingadero de chula vista
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Maybe they should put a sports stadium in Mammoth and a high speed rail (preferably running underground in a vacuum) from San Diego and Los Angeles.
The Mammoth Lakes Rams and Clipper/Dodgers.
Less drunks on the freeways
Reduced carbon footprint
...
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Klk,
I figured that might be the case.
The big hotel guys are playing in a whole other league than the local East Side business bund.
Thanks, John. I'll have to remember Sam Snead.
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NML81
Trad climber
N Lake Tahoe
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Mammoth Lakes has been headed downhill ever since Interwest entered this community and manufactured an environment the "local" couldn't survive in. Hopefully it can rebound.
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Rankin
Social climber
Greensboro, North Carolina
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1. Mammoth Lakes is a remote ski mountain. A five to six hours drive is common from Southern California. Given this fact, Mammoth Lakes will never be like the Colorado resort towns.
2. The town made a lot of money off of the construction industry during the buildup in the credit and real estate bubbles. A lot of the money pumped into those homes was new money, and once the bubble burst, there wasn't the backing to continue the lavish lifestyle for many home-owners.
3. The town jacked up the price on permits for new construction just as the economy began to slowdown. This exasperated the already slowing construction industry, and then once credit became more difficult to acquire, new money investors disappeared. There were zero permits filed in 2008 for new construction. Ouch.
4. Greed. The town got too big for its britches. Local government and the mountain have consistently taken policy approaches that are dependent upon rapid short-term growth supplied by wealthy people. In the process they pushed away locals and middle class visitors who once were the bread and butter of the mountain.
5. In denial of the fact that Mammoth Mountain is remote, the town pursued a high elevation airport expansion when they really didn't know what they were doing. Again, the decision making seems to have been rushed and poorly thought out. I've never understood why the town didn't pursue an airport expansion in BIshop, where it seems the geography and weather are more hospitable.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Mammoth Lakes has been headed downhill
I thought that started when they built the first lift.
;>)
John
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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The town and many of it's residents were behind the lawsuit to restore Owens Lake.
This VICTORY is now costing DWP $$$$$$.
Now DWP wants ALL the water from Mammoth Creek.
DWP did purchase the WATER rights back around 1903, and a special gift of super cheap water in the 40s, was granted to help the new Ski town survive.
So the lesson?
Don't F with DWP.... EVER.
And IMHO skiing is way to expensive.
I say no to $80 day passes.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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There's always Trout Season.
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Jon Beck
Trad climber
Oceanside
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$500,000 K a year—worth about a sixth of yer average trophy chalet in that neighborhood
The resident's are not liable for the judgment, the city is. The creditor can not look to the citizens for payment.
We had a similar experience here in Oceanside, the city spent years trying to get a developer to commit to a hotel at the pier. Doug Manchester got involved and wanted to take all the beach front property, the rec center and the amphitheater. Luckily the Coastal Commission stopped the nonsense. We eventually got a hotel without a huge gift to any developer. Dougie was pissed he got left out, threatened to sue and the city paid him a few million to go away.
These cities are so naive when dealing with developers.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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i haven't read far enough in the docs to offer a serious judgment, but although it does look like there were some bad decisions made by the municipality, we should all be clear on how bad all of the available choices really were.
1. skiing is in decline nationwide and has been since the seventies. it's just not poular and it's getting less popular.
2. ski resorts that are surviving do so largely because they attract a clientele that will spend more per capita especially on goods not related to snow, and especially real estate.
3. mammoth is an la suburb. it's burbank with snow. it is entirely dependent on the willingness and ability of middle-class socalifornios to pack the family into the rig and grind north for six to nine hours. that means not only the vagaries of weather, but also of gas prices, hwy conditions, and the real estate market in socal determine visitation in mammoth.
4. mammoth can't compete for the nearest urban clientele in the bay area. tahoe has the infrastructure, the access, and the brand recognition for affluent bay area skiiers. mammoth isnt going to lure those folks into a dicey cessna ride over the crest when tahoe is right there.
5. mammoth's longterm future as a serious ski resort probably depends on building the airport access and local infrastructure to lure in and support the one percenters and those members of the middle and upper-middle classes that are aspirational.
6. tax revenues in mammoth are highly volatile because they are so dependent on room taxes and other forms of sales tax that fluctuate wildly with each swing in the weather and season. that makes long-term financial and fiscal planning insanely difficult. and everyone does their bigbox shopping in bishop, which means a chunk of the sales tax (esp in shoulder season) ends up in bishop.
7. property owners are overwhelmingly from out-of-the-area. that means little in the way of local commitment or support or interest-- aside from demands for better snow removal and lower taxes --from all the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th homeowners.
i can easily imagine a bunch of bad local decisions. and i personally really, really dislike the direction that the local government has tried to go-- more infrastructure for one-percenters and those aping them; golf, baby, golf; really ugly mcmansions and increasingly large condos for indoor sports; major airport expansion to try and step up and compete with the vails of the world --but i understand why it would look like the only longterm option.
those postwar, family-oriented, middle-class ski resorts, built by 10th mountain division guys on forest service land and decorated with a mix of fishing lodges and a-frames, are now museum pieces. pick out yr favorite and watch it die. product of a specific historical moment that has now passed. a few may survive under locally unusual conditions or as bits of historic landscape with the right kind of subsidy. but mammoth is in the wrong place for that kind of future. and june, well, when it comes to skiing, june is a colony of a colony.
golf, baby, golf!
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