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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 18, 2011 - 02:57am PT
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I onsight free soloed the Umph slot in EBs. When i was a skinny kid.
...No way I'm going back to that one...
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Oct 18, 2011 - 03:07am PT
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Size matters!
I have a hard time with the Generator. Never fallen out, just have a hard time.
I think the start of the Harding Slot on Astroman (5.9 pffft) and Third Stone From the Sun at the Leap (5.10c similar to Harding Slot) are both harder than Twilight Zone.
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 18, 2011 - 03:29am PT
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TZ is the industry standard for 5.10c and Cream should be 10a if your knee fits early, I like this stile... it remind something..
Reading this you can persuade yourself - "I climb many Valley 10c's so I should jump on TZ"
or "I have small knee- Cream is no harder than Sacherer"
Or "I climbed many Valley 5.9's - I can jump on Mental Block"
I remember in 2004 being complete noob [ believed everything what ST says] and reading ST tread about Mental Block where Russ and Jaybro compete with each other to downgrade the route. And I was silly to believe all what they wrote ...
Especially Russ statement that Mental block is no harder than 5.9, but very sustain - almost every move.. So I got a bite, went with friend and had the epic fail on p3 of Mental Block.
I was very angry on ST sandbaggers for a while..
The end of this story- 6 years later my wife and I climb Mental block- and everything was smooth this time.
When we rapped down my wife who never read ST said : " This route does not feel as 10c. More like 5.9, but very sustain 5.9" - I was laughing.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Oct 18, 2011 - 03:41am PT
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As I said, Jaybro, if you can fit into it, it's little more
than a very safe, fall-proof squeeze chimney, like
the Narrows (but slightly tighter). But try it
on the outside!! It's like tipping the Generator Crack
back to a full-on roof almost...
I'm trying to remember. Did Harding lead the Harding Slot
on Washington Column (Astroman) free? Or did it start as
aid and then go free? He was known for being
pretty tough, but also thin. He fit into some
tight things even Pratt couldn't fit into.
I know people who have done
that Harding pitch on Washingtn Column
who could do Twilight Zone if Rod S. was up
there to drop them a top rope... Doo De Doo Doo,
Doo De Doo Doo...
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nutjob
Gym climber
Berkeley, CA
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Oct 18, 2011 - 03:42am PT
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Maybe this will be the year that I can chime in with some experience on the subject. But I seem to think that every year for the last couple of years... no major shutdowns, but no attempts yet either!
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Oct 18, 2011 - 08:27am PT
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Yeah Alexey; go spouses.
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rick d
climber
ol pueblo, az
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Oct 18, 2011 - 08:52am PT
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Since OW starts at 5.9 should not the whole grading scale moved down? So Ahab is 5.0, Generator is 5.1, TZ is 5.1+,and paisano is 5.3? If you look at it this way we have a long way to go to get up to 5.14 sport (which still would be only 5.4).
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 18, 2011 - 10:37am PT
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I always knew that wife of yours was a smart woman, Alexey!
exactly my point, Pat, my 19 yr old, 140lb self, floated up places my, 55 yr old 157lb self fears to tread....
and not to let the Cat out of the bag, but, Alexey has the most favorable Fist/knee ratio ever!
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Oct 18, 2011 - 11:33am PT
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I was very angry on ST sandbaggers for a while..
The end of this story- 6 years later my wife and I climb Mental block- and everything was smooth this time.
When we rapped down my wife who never read ST said : " This route does not feel as 10c. More like 5.9, but very sustain 5.9" - I was laughing.
Alexey, I would not steer you wrong. MB is 5.9, especially if your wife says so.
Great story!
http://widefetish.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=709.msg7346
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scuffy b
climber
dissected alluvial deposits, late Pleistocene
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Oct 18, 2011 - 12:25pm PT
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Twilight Zone is much easier to see.
Steppin Out is less frightening.
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland, CA
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Oct 18, 2011 - 01:18pm PT
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Alexey the threads you start on ST are always so damn great.
The story about your wife on rap from Mental Block is hilarious - after six years of murderous anger at Russ and Jaybro for shameless sandbagging, the rage is finally dissipating from you with the send, you're reaching a place of forgiveness, and then your wife casually drops that sustained 5.9 line while rapping. Oh god it's too perfect.
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fosburg
climber
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Oct 18, 2011 - 08:55pm PT
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Wow, I had more trouble with Steppin' Out than Twilight Zone, felt like about a letter grade harder. Guess I'm distinctly in the minority here...
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 18, 2011 - 09:46pm PT
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It's been awhile but the grades seem equivalent although they are quite different climbs.
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eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
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Oct 18, 2011 - 11:02pm PT
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Did 'em both, circa 1976-1977. Twilight Zone, at least twice. I remember next to nothing about either one outside of very general, visceral impressions. Pretty sure I had just one or two tube chocks (bigger than hexes)for each lead. That's just how it was back then. It was a time in which you just had to believe that you could hold it together and gun for the rests. TZ feels like a prouder achievement of the two.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Oct 18, 2011 - 11:49pm PT
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Donini,
Were you able to use modern pro? A big Friend, for example,
or Tube Chocks? Just curious. Quite a few people on this thread
speak rather nonchalantly about Twilight Zone, and I guessit
makes me wonder a little if maybe they had better protection than
the original ascent... When I led that top pitch of Reed's Right,
with Pratt, I had no pro but some piton way down below inside.
It was pretty tough. Then later I returned and, just below the crux,
got in some kind of big piece, and it made a huge difference...
felt quite a bit easier. Mind you, I'm not taking away anything from
anyone's ascent, it's just curious how seemingly "unimpressed" some
seem with these classic tough cracks.... I might simply be mis-reading
the tone...
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 19, 2011 - 12:04am PT
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Patrick -- "I might simply be mis-reading
the tone... "
Yeah ... you are definitely misreading the tone.
We're all just yanking each others chain.
And you are correct, these climbs are serious once you/we set foot on em.
But here on the internet ..... anything goes as you probably have noticed by now.
Cheers ..... :-)
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 19, 2011 - 12:09am PT
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Okay, I'm clowning with the generator crack comment but the thing about TZ is that it will absolutely destroy you if your technique is shoddy. I remember doing Left Side of Reeds and Ahab before I had any kind of OW technique and both felt desperate. Once I learned how to ratchet the legs and stack the feet I could cruise those routes. Left side of the Slack is another that will ruin you if the technique is not there because it's so freaking water polished. I also remember dong the right side of Absolutely Free (I think) and it had virtually no pro with the old nuts. Not so hard (10B??) but don't rip.
JL
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Oct 19, 2011 - 12:31am PT
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Pat,
I did both climbs before modern pro including tube chocks. I remember the first part of TW was run out.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Oct 19, 2011 - 02:07am PT
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Modern pro, old pro, whatever. I think it's actually physically harder trying to push gear above your head with the rope in your way the whole time than it is to suck it up and climb above your gear.
Then again, it's mentally harder to not be on a virtual top rope the whole time.
Depends on your head and confidence I guess.
When I did Stepping out, I only had a #6 which fit somewhere in the middle but was the only pro I had besides that rusted bolt. It was overhanging and I felt like I could actually peel out of the thing.
When I did TZ I only had pro for the last 10 or so feet but I felt like there was no way I could pop out of the thing. Slide down yes, but not pop. So I felt mentally Stepping Out was harder which translates to it's physical aspects really quickly.
That being said, for the aspiring hard O.W. aficionado. If you want to maximize efficiency, don't push gear above your head. Place your gear and move along focusing on breathing and the task ahead instead. You'll have a better shot in the end.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 19, 2011 - 02:14am PT
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I don't know, placing big gear and forging ahead also can have its drawbacks on occasion. Had a buddy place a Valley Giant and climb above it, at which point he slipped back down in the wide crack and got trapped straddling the Cam. The ensuing thrash was not pretty.
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