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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 17, 2011 - 10:10pm PT
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It is interesting to know opinion of those who climbed both routes and still remember them. Which is harder? Which is better?
Four years ago during same week I top roped both of those routes. I was doing OK on Steppin' Out and almost peel off from TZ.
At the time- I felt that TZ at least two letters grade harder. I was struggling so intensively to stay in crack - that I have no memories about the route.
Since than I led Steppin' Out several times without big problems, but still far from pure enjoinment . And I never returned to TZ.
Both routes rated in Reid book 10d** , both routes continuing OW about 100 ft long [ I talk about second crux pitch of TZ and ruling out first and third pitches]
TZ is overhanging OW in corner - narrowing to the top.
Steppin' Out is leaning offset splitter also overhanging with about same width all the way which changed from 5 to 6 inches
TZ has as I remember about 20 feet ow section where knee not fit in
Steppin' Out has tree short sections where knee not fit in, but those sections bypassed by short moves.
TZ has no good rests as I remember ???
Steppin' Out has two spots where you can fully restore your body.
It is time for me to finish road to Twilight Zone , but I still have some fear left to this route.
It TZ really two letters grade harder than Steppin' Out?
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Oct 17, 2011 - 10:27pm PT
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Steppin Out is easier than TZ.
TZ is more demanding than Steppin Out
TZ is harder than Cream
Cream is harder than Steppin Out
Cream and Steppin Out are more secure than TZ
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 17, 2011 - 10:39pm PT
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Tz is the real govno. Stepping out got rated the same cause dr E. Md. Didn't flash it. The rating stayed because in the ensuing decades nobody but you, me, Russ, Walt, and Scuffy ever climbed it..... Maybe.......
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Oct 17, 2011 - 10:44pm PT
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As a side note Alexey.... Why the fuk are you asking this over here and not at WideFetish.com? For a full spraydown, try it over there. I can guarantee a more animated and complete answer, at least from me.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 17, 2011 - 10:48pm PT
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I free soloed all three of em
The Zone, Steppin' Out, and Cream.
They're all the same when do em that way ....
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 17, 2011 - 11:27pm PT
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The Generator Crack is harder than all three. Cream is only hard getting from fist to offwidth, then it's just chugging; TZ is a grovel but if you're rell good with T-boning with your feet, it makes a HUGE difference; they should never have put that bolt in Steppin' Out. Never soloed any of them, but BITD, the Zone was basically a solo.
JL
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Alexey
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 17, 2011 - 11:44pm PT
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Russ, thank you for invite for widefetish.com. But why bother with registration if all two climbers from there who climbed both routes- you and Jaybro already chime in on this ST tread.
BTW, knowing that you normally incline to sandbag routes- and not TZ - and remember your story how metal plate of your jeans hold you from whipper on TZ- make my fear to be reasonable.
Jaybro, not sure that you precisely used russian word "govno"- which have only one meaning - sh#t..
and who is "dr E. Md."?
Edit:
Jaybro, now reading your widefetish tread I see you used Russian presisely, but it is not clear to me why you dislike TZ?
http://widefetish.com/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=709.msg7344;topicseen#msg7344
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Oct 17, 2011 - 11:55pm PT
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The beauty is in the depth of the response. Here, a few quips and some comparisons, over there you might get a Skype interview of animated wide guys on liquor, a quicktime movie of the difference, and if available, pics and anecdotes.
SuperTaco is more like talking in line at the supermarket for me, where at WF you might get a vacation offer, a full spraydown, and maybe an invite to a WideFest.
Edit: as to the sandbagging.... Largo up there with the Generator Crack tale is really pulling your leg.
Generator crack = industry standard for 10b
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Oct 18, 2011 - 12:02am PT
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Pilgrims, Generator Crack is not harder than Twilight Zone, especially when considered as leads. I used to unrope Generator all the time. Largo is exaggerating.
And I agree with Russ' assessment of Cream, Twilight Zone and Stepping Out. I would also point out that the Zone is also the best route of the three.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 18, 2011 - 12:17am PT
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Well I'm glad that's clear.....blondes, even dyed ones, need these things well defined or are we well defined and we need them clarified....or is that a certain type of butter for cooking Mojo de Ajo. Guess the twilight of the zone made my brain slip while steppin' out to embrace the fun of .....ST :DD
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 18, 2011 - 12:56am PT
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It looks like the ratings should be changed to something like:
5.10c Steppin' Out
5.10d Cream
5.11a Twilight Zone
?
Alexey: who is "dr E. Md."?
Dr. Andy Embick?
(I know he tried Steppin' Out)
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Captain...or Skully
climber
Where are you bound?
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Oct 18, 2011 - 12:57am PT
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Well, there are those that invite the discussion of various WYDE things, but I agree with Russ, it goes in its venue, in order to thoroughly deal with the subject matter at hand.
Twilight Zone is Hard.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Oct 18, 2011 - 01:12am PT
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It looks like the ratings should be changed to something like:
5.10c Steppin' Out
5.10d Cream
5.11a Twilight Zone
Fatal flaw is TZ is the industry standard for 5.10c (yellow Meyers)
So, Steppin Out should be like 5.10b
and Cream should be 5.10+ (10a if your knee fits early, or 10d if your pants roll up on you)
Everyone knows the hardest OW's are always rated 10c. Who uprated the TZ anyway?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 18, 2011 - 01:30am PT
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I thought Cream was harder than T-Zone.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 18, 2011 - 01:33am PT
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They're all rated 5.7
They're all kinda run out.
They all need lots of bolts to be made safe for this new 21st century.
The dark ages are now over.
The bolt will guide us to the safe zone.
Homeland security approved for the new world order.
Control!
Run out guys will all be collared in and put on leash ....
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Oct 18, 2011 - 02:10am PT
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Russ,
> Fatal flaw is TZ is the industry standard for 5.10c (yellow Meyers)
I think you meant 5.10d (TZ is 5.10d in yellow Meyers).
And it was 5.10D in Bridwell's "Brave New World" article in 1973.
http://www.stanford.edu/%7Eclint/yos/brave.htm
So was Steppin' Out.
And, yeah, it would be jarring to bump TZ into 5.11 after all these years.
So this suggests:
5.10b Steppin' Out
5.10c Cream
5.10d Twilight Zone
Now the only thing that might be a shock is downrating Cream by "2 letter grades".
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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Oct 18, 2011 - 02:21am PT
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Alexey, I though TZ was easier than Steppin Out. On TZ I was able to stack my feet and get a good rest almost anywhere. Stepping Out I only got a couple rests when I was able to "step out" on some good face holds. I also miss judged the size of the crack and didn't bring a #5. I was glad that crap bolt was there as I didn't get pro until near the top.
Then again, I think the Vendetta is more like 5.9+.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 18, 2011 - 02:23am PT
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"Placing gear is just a bother," -Dingus McGee.
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Oct 18, 2011 - 02:45am PT
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I too was going to say I don't think Generator Crack is as hard
as Twilight Zone. In part it has to do with body size. Largo
is a pretty sturdy fellow, and it might be later that he gets
his chest into Generator, whereas I can slip in after a couple of offwidth
moves. I never had much trouble with Generator Crack. Body size,
though, can greatly affect a person's experience. I did an off-width
near Boulder that is harder than any off-width I've done in the
Valley, a little thing up an overhang and called "the Umph Slot."
Pratt actually made the first free ascent on an early trip
to Boulder. His wide shoulders but also
thin chest was key in some of these cracks, not to mention his
artistry and technique, but he could fit inside Umph Slot all the way,
though very tightly. He rated it 5.9. Back then 5.9, rated by
Pratt, was a serious deal. I took a little student of mine up the
Umph Slot, Jeff Schwenn, and he too could get inside and wriggle
up, no real problem. I am on the outside through the most
overhanging part, because my chest doesn't fit. It's all of solid
5.11. I've taken a slew of people up it, such as
Pete Cleveland, who could not touch the Umph Slot,
because they have the same thick chest. It's a real beast of a few
moves, if you can't get inside. When I did Sentinel with Pratt,
on the little off-width maybe fifty feet above the Wilson Overhang,
he slipped inside and tunneled up, whereas I had to lead that
section as an off-width, on the outside. The grade is much harder
if you can't fit in that little stretch. The first time I did
Sentinel with Chris Fredericks I was able to do that tunnel up
through like Pratt. But between then and when I did it with Chuck,
I got thicker, was doing gymnastics, and such. Each of us has some
different shape and size, and some climbs will be
easier and some harder, depending on those differences. Ultimately,
of course, it's more about having the technique and experience.
Twilight Zone was an amazing accomplishment for 1964, and psychologically
it is 5.11, especially if you did/do it anything close
to Pratt style, such as without sliding up
a big Friend, as you advance.... He was unprotected but such a master
of off-widths he was in control. If Twilight Zone is 5.10d, it's
one of the hardest, for those psychological reasons if nothing else.
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