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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Jul 20, 2011 - 02:03am PT
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If any of us civilians were standing at the top of Vernal Falls and someone started to climb over the fence and we grabbed them to prevent a tragedy, using whatever minimum force was required, who would the Rangers arrest?
Or you hesitate thinking about the legal definition of assault so the person does make it over the fence and slips and goes over the falls
but you know you could have saved him.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Jul 20, 2011 - 02:05am PT
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kinda hafta agree with micronut's post
just like the guy at the ranger's game, or the the guy at the blowhole, it really doesn't matter how or why they died, it just matters that their kids are without them. so very sad.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 20, 2011 - 02:14am PT
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"Why don't people respect the signs? "
Because people don't know what they don't know, and only learn through personal experience. That, and the fact that most every person believes those signs (or rules, or laws) are intended for someone else, and they are somehow different from everyone else.
Almost every person here has probably reacted to a sign or regulation in the same manner at some point- some have made entire lifestyles and careers of it. One can shrug off the silly ignorance of the adults, but the tragedy lies with some kids who don't understand much more than the fact that their parents are gone forever.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
bouldering
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Jul 20, 2011 - 03:13am PT
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I think Nevada Falls has the bigger tally of deaths than Vernal. I remember seeing a rosary hung on a bush above Nevada, and my brother actually saw a body recovery there once.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
It ain't El Cap, Oregon
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Jul 20, 2011 - 03:27am PT
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Of course I feel great pain for the kids and others involved.
BUT...
I don't get it... It is a WATERFALL. There is a CLIFF there. You KNOW the water will go OVER the cliff and nothing will stop it. The water WILL take anything and everything it WANTS over that cliff. What makes anyone think they can tempt gravity and the forces of nature? There is a railing there. It MEANS something!
Now we have SAR folks risking THEIR lives to do the recoveries.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Jul 20, 2011 - 03:36am PT
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I think people actually get that the waterfall is dangerous. What they don't get is that the water polished slabs that the water is running over is very, very slippery.
It is a combination of the very slippery slabs and no room for error with the waterfall right there which creates this very dangerous situation.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 20, 2011 - 04:05am PT
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I hate to disagree with Chaz, but being from New York State, I have seen Niagara Falls. I think it hard to understand how anyone could confuse Niagara and Vernal Falls. Unfortunately, humans have long shown their talent for getting facts wrong.
I have lost the reference but I have read an account of the rescue of someone who attempted suicide at Niagara Falls. Though still alive after going over the falls and though deep into hypothermia the person tried to fight off the people trying to lift him into the boat.
I think we have to allow for the fact the incredible power in evidence at a natural waterfall can change a person's thought processes. Go to the top of Upper Yosemite Falls when in flood, and then tell me you are completely unaffected. We may be strangely attracted to places where "something is happening."
I investigated this once with my two year old daughter. In order to take down a tree in the backyard I had affixed a rope higher up and then had cut most of the way through the trunk some twenty feet up. I went in and got her out to see the tree come down. After all the expected crashing, noise, and destruction she looked up at me as if to say, "Yes. Now what?"
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Jul 20, 2011 - 11:10am PT
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Very sad, RIP.
Good post, micronut.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 20, 2011 - 11:15am PT
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Sorry to say micronut.
You have to be pretty stupid to be entering the water so near the top of the falls in front of the warning signs at this time with the high fast water flow.
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EdBannister
Mountain climber
13,000 feet
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Jul 20, 2011 - 12:01pm PT
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'Cause nobody believes anything the government says, even when it is true.
Reily speaks the truth here
that human tendancy, plus the peaceful look of laminar flow at the top....
and we see another sad result...
edit: and yes sorry, the sick side of me says: gene pool
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 20, 2011 - 12:05pm PT
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Cragman - I agree...
most of the comments regarding the 2 recent Hawaii tragedies (e.g. a man fell into a blowhole, another swept away by a rogue wave) were "They should've had a sign!"
Really, a sign?
Something is missing in human education - people aren't taught to observe and think things through. I also think people "get" that the waterfall is dangerous, but don't get the strength of the current, the slippery rocks, and the impossibility of getting out quickly. At Vernal Fall, in fall, at "low" flow the pool just above looks rather inviting and calm (I think it's Vernal, maybe Nevada?) As a kayaker, I can look at the river and realize that the "calm" current is actually very strong and that the 25-deg dipping polished and wet granite can be very hard to cross. Most people can't do that... which why there are signs, and a fence.
Disturbing that people can't assess risk well... sad that one bad decision resulted in such a tragedy.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 20, 2011 - 12:07pm PT
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I'm with Micronut %100
We climbers have no business preaching to people about doing dangerous "stupid" things
those sign ignorers are probably more like us climbers than the other tourists.
Condolence to all those who experience loss
Peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 20, 2011 - 12:22pm PT
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I'm in the rescue business.
I have every right to preach when you're out of line doing something stupid .....
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Mangy Peasant
Social climber
Riverside, CA
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Jul 20, 2011 - 12:27pm PT
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I remember the first time I slipped on polished wet granite. Doing a descent somewhere near the Five Open Books area. Amazing how slick it was. Just caught myself before sliding down a ledge that was probably about 30 feet up.
I'm not in favor of going overboard with warning signs, but if there was a way to emphasize the message that "It's way more slippery than it looks!" - perhaps some folks would actually get it.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 20, 2011 - 12:33pm PT
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I was sunning myself on a granite slab in the Wasatch with a double-e waterfall over my back. For some unknown reason I sat up suddenly, just in time to be smacked in the back with a basketball sized chunk of granite. Better the kidney than the head I suppose. I scrambled for my life as I slid toward the 20' cliff that led to the base of the falls.
When I started breathing again I looked around, trying to piece together WTF just happened. Then came another rock! I ran up the hill to find a bunch of boy scouts rolling rocks down the hill. I gave those little fukers a vocabulary list they couldn't believe. The scout master had the NERVE to tell me to watch my language. HOLY FUK, that is the closest I have ever come to completely losing it on someone.
Falls are scary.
Those are grounds for ass-kicking.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 20, 2011 - 12:37pm PT
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There are people have never put a foot down on a natural surface. They get to Vernal Falls walking first on pavement and then on a trail. They got to the pavement by stepping out of an automobile.
Vernal Falls may be the first time they have tried to walk on wet polished stone. This is an experience that normally occurs at three or four years of age and results in a bumped knee.
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YosemiteSteve
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 20, 2011 - 02:33pm PT
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Three Stanislaus County residents died Tuesday afternoon when they slipped while playing in the Merced River and were swept over Vernal Fall in Yosemite National Park. Hormiz David, 22, and Ramina Badal, 21, both of Modesto, and Ninos Yacoub, 27, of Turlock had moved beyond the protective guard rail at the top of the waterfall. Their bodies have not yet been recovered, Yosemite officials said. "Other visitors were pleading with them to come out of the water," said park spokesman Scott Gediman. "One of the slipped, and there was a chain-reaction as the other two tried to save the person who slipped.
Read more: http://www.mercedsunstar.com/2011/07/20/1975900/3-stan-county-residents-died-tuesday.html#ixzz1Sfdc6h8N
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dirtbag
climber
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Jul 20, 2011 - 02:37pm PT
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Very sad. R.I.P.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 20, 2011 - 02:57pm PT
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If this were a memorial thread, I would agree 100 percent with Micronuts assessment. I just reread the Todd Skinner thread and no one bashed him for climbing with a worn harness, even after his partner told him it was worn. And no one bashed him for not backing it up. So it does seem like a double standard.
I don't think its totally obvious just how dangerous it is at the top of the falls. It is if you have some experience with how slick polished granite can be, but otherwise not so obvious. Signs notwithstanding. How many people here ignore signs? Speedlimit. too rough of surf. whatever.
My first experience with polished granite was as a kid scrambling to the base of Bridal Veil falls. I was on one rock with decent grip, stepped to the next rock and went flat on my back in an instant and slid headfirst a ways down the cascade before I could right myself. That one incident caused me to develop a deep respect for how slick granite can get, but I have still slipped in different places. Just not in as dangerous a place as the top of the falls.
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