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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 11, 2011 - 09:10pm PT
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Thanks Tami, nicely put.
There is no good news in all of this.
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iancaldwell
Sport climber
Redmond, Oregon
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Jul 11, 2011 - 11:15pm PT
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Bolts were removed today. The swing is gone.
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chris vaughan
climber
bend, or
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Jul 11, 2011 - 11:19pm PT
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Smith Rock Fall Victim in Fair Condition
One Tumbled 85 Feet, Now In Serious Condition
By Barney Lerten, KTVZ.COM
POSTED: 11:00 pm PDT July 9, 2011
AAAText Size
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UPDATED: 3:34 pm PDT July 11, 2011
I know its confusing, but it looks like they have upgraded her condition as of this afternoon. Go Liz!
Via the FB it appears that the anchors to this swing have been removed. Also as of today.
I'm pretty familiar with the logistics of the swing and its proximity to the main rappel anchors. Do to the fact that there is always "more to the story" I'm not gonna jump on any bandwagons and pass judgement on the incident; I won't comment on the anchor removal until I hear the person's ethos or rationale.... whatever. Although I'm not happy about it, I respect the guy and want to hear him out.
That being said, in my view, Smith has been a carnival for 30 years or more. Plastic holds, shotgun pranks, keggers, the list goes on. This whole thing is unfortunate and it appears that two people have been victimized by another persons carelessness or recklessness.
Wow, internet is fast, just looked back and there's Ian.
How about it?
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jul 11, 2011 - 11:25pm PT
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the rugged terrain where the rap route comes off the Monkey on the left
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MisterE
Social climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2011 - 11:31pm PT
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If memory serves correct - this is the landing point for the rappel, just barely out of the slope to the right (borrowed from Studly's photo).
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jul 12, 2011 - 12:29am PT
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Well, having done the swing off of Scarface a few times, I can't be too critcal. They should have been more careful, but it sounds to me like bad luck as much as anything.
As some others on this thread have said, it's not as if people haven't set up swings like this at other climbing areas, and people have been doing the one on Scarface for at least 15 years.
What always scared me the most about the Scarface one, and what seems even more dubious about that Monkey one is that the welded tuff at Smith isn't exactly the strongest rock in the world to put anchors into, and certainly not to have huge swing forces on the anchor.
At any rate the accident sucks and I hope she recovers quickly.
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mae
climber
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Jul 12, 2011 - 01:10am PT
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I haven't been able to shake the want to correct what the paper got wrong. Not a huge error, but because I was standing right there talking to them when it happened, I wanted to lend my eye witness account.
The newspaper said the rope hit them in the lower legs and they lost their balance. Later in the article a deputy talks about the dangers of people falling off Misery Ridge because of loose rock.
The quick and accurate version is this: the rope tied to the bottom of the swing's rap line, that ran back up to the diving board lay across the ledge we were all standing on. When the guy on the swing jumped, my partner was almost up the first pitch, and I was talking to Lee and Liz who'd just rapped down. When the guy on the swing grabbed his rap line, the rope tied to the diving board didn't "hit them and make them lose their balance." They were run off the ledge, at a full sprint, right passed me, with the rope at their backs and slammed face first (she was wearing her helmet) into the ledge 15 feet below before rolling down the talus their respective distances (my guess is that her pack made her roll farther/faster, he didn't have his on yet). The rope did hit me in the back of the legs, but I was anchored, as I should have been with a climber on belay. They were a minute from walking away, which is why they were rightfully not anchored. Had the guy on the swing jumped 5 minutes before, it would have been all four of us, 2 minutes after, it would have been none.
The first thing you hope after something like this is that everyone is okay, (she was updated from serious to fair condition today). The second is that we all get smarter because of it. I don't know much about the swing, but I do know that that ledge was part of their site, and they had not secured it. I hope that they think it all the way through next time.
My best to Elizabeth and Lee.
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MisterE
Social climber
CA
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Jul 12, 2011 - 01:44am PT
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Here's a bit better video of the swing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x5FytswYphI
You all were at the notch then, Mae? And the swingers were pulling themselves back to that anchor point? Because it looks like the swing anchors are set up above the East Face Crack, well to the right and out of the way of the south face, a rappel well away from the trade routes (note the prominent "tooth" in the video and in the East Face picture below):
Photo credit: Jack Herer
The nearest climb to the Mouth rappel is "Rising Expectations" (5.11d, the top of which is to the left in the picture). The scramble to the notch from the east that is the approach to the usual suspects is exposed but easy and the climb to the starting ledge for the regular route/Monkey Space is exposed 5.6.
Just trying to clarify - thanks.
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jack herer
Sport climber
Veneta, Oregon
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 12, 2011 - 02:03am PT
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Hey Mae, thanks for the first hand account. I almost had to work with that group doing the tyrolean that day but got the weekend off. Great shot of Jim Anglin there MisterE, photo credit goes to me ;) But yes that is the point where the swing was rigged off of. That is great to hear Liz is doing better.
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mae
climber
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Jul 12, 2011 - 02:58am PT
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It was less of a chase or avoidance or even a whip. You know when someone pushes your back and you take a step forward? It was like that, but on speed.
Lee had his shirt off and a brutal rope burn that I saw on his mid back when he hit the second ledge.
They were doing it differently on Saturday then in the video you shared, MisterE. They had a separate rap line that was part of a loop back to the diving board. So it wasn't that they were whipped by the end of a rope, they were caught in the force of the swinger on his second pass, grabbing a looped system. It's like they were flung with no choice but to move their feet. Does that make more sense?
Yeah, the east side, scramble up to the notch, the pitch before the bolt ladder. That's the right photo, Studly/MisterE.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Jul 12, 2011 - 10:54am PT
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Gone are the days when Smith was quiet for weeks at a time........
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August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
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Jul 12, 2011 - 12:05pm PT
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There was an accident on EB Middle Cathedral Rock quite a few years ago, after a party speed climbed around a friend of mine and his partner, then knocked of a large rock which hit my friends partner in the head. This was a serious event with significant after effects. There was a law suit and the climbers above who knocked off the rock lost.
I've never heard about this (how long ago was it?). They "lost" meaning it went to a jury trial and they lost, or they (or their insurance) settled?
I'm curious since this sounds like it would be an important precedent.
Was the negligence in knocking the rock off or was it established that it is illegal to pass a party on a route?
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Jul 12, 2011 - 12:47pm PT
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It is my recollection that the middle cathedral lawsuit was settled before trial.
Edited to add: It has no legal precedent.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Jul 12, 2011 - 01:37pm PT
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So here are two questions for you Randy.
1) If there was no precedence, meaning, no legal "finding" by a judge and/or jury, doesn't this type of thing still set the gears in motion for possible legal action in the future?
2) If the case was settled out of court, does this mean there was some form of binding arbitration complete with sealed records?
Sorry, but my legal understanding is pretty much zero.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 12, 2011 - 02:37pm PT
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I am not an expert either but generally when a corporation pays money to get a settlement out of court there are two stipulations.
1. the terms of the settlement are not public information
2. there is no admission of legal/other liability
Since it would be impossible or a great additional burden for a court to establish the facts surrounding a prior settlement, and it is the job of the court to establish this in the first place, I would expect the court would simply make its finding on the case at hand.
In climbing areas there are now all manner of ongoing commercial activities but the attendant legal liabilities are generally mooted by incorporation and the poverty of the parties involved. Will be interesting to see how that will evolve in outdoor recreation. What is being sold there is a service delivered by a person and is not an inanimate object represented as delivering a specified performance.
Were I ever to use such services I would take care to review the provider's financial statements -
beforehand.
If unable to supply such audited statements I would not use their service.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Jul 12, 2011 - 02:39pm PT
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1) If there was no precedence, meaning, no legal "finding" by a judge and/or jury, doesn't this type of thing still set the gears in motion for possible legal action in the future?
For a case to have "legal" precedence, it would have to be a published decision that can be cited as creating, interpreting or stating law on a subject. These types of published "opinions" arise either from a State Court of Appeal or State Supreme Court OR certain Federal Trial Court Decisions as well as a Federal Court of Appeal Circuit and US Supreme Court.
A state trial court decision (at least in California) has no legal precedent (except in that case of course).
But, to your broader question, there is certainly an argument to be made that if climbers successfully* sue other climbers that this may encourage other climbers to do the same.
* meaning they recover money whether by settlement or judgment.
2) If the case was settled out of court, does this mean there was some form of binding arbitration complete with sealed records?
Not likely. Binding arbitration is only an alternative means of litigating a lawsuit. An arbitration award is final judgment determined by using an arbitrator instead of a judge/jury. Because the arbitrator's award is binding, it is usually not appealable. This essentially precludes "settling" a case.
Also, in personal injury actions (which category this case would fall under -- bad pun), plaintiffs usually want to have a jury hear the case and would be unlikely to agree to binding arbitration.
Settling a case usually is accomplished either informally between the parties, as a result of mediation (using a third party mediator), or through a Court supervised Settlement Conference. Also, if there is an adverse evidentiary or factual ruling by the Court before trial, there is usually a strong incentive for settlement.
Taking a case to trial always has an element of the unknown. The facts of every case are different and rarely clearly-cut in favor of one party. There may be conflicting testimony of witnesses and evidence may be equivocable. Sometimes key witnesses (or the client) may not come across well and a jury may dislike them (or not believe them). Etc., etc.
All of this can lead to the parties taking into account the risk of losing and the cost of taking a case to trial. These uncertainties can lead to settlements. Settlements provide certainty. Like insurance, a settlement gets you a certain result for a certain cost.
Settlements (and their terms) may or may not be made part of the Court's records. The only Court record of a settlement may be a dismissal of the case.
Edited to add: It is extremely unlikely that the Court file would be sealed (absent confidential or proprietary information contained in the file -- this usually arises in Misappropriation of Trade Secrets cases).
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processk
Trad climber
Portland, OR
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Jul 12, 2011 - 02:48pm PT
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I was climbing on Monkey Face with a friend that day, actually following the two victims as all four of us climbed Monkey Space. We opted to bail on the last pitch and instead rappelled down from the far anchors in the West Cave in order to play around on Northwest Corner via toprope. After our rap, we set up on the belay ledge and my partner began climbing.
He had made it about 20 feet above the belay ledge when I heard a woosh, similar to a rope being pulled, and a man screaming "YEAAAAHHHHH" I look up and from around the corner (Eastern sharp corner on Monkey Face) I see a man falling straight toward me, face first. Needless to say this instantly rang "This is wrong" in my mind. I realized he was on a swing and as he swung around I was already judging his stupidity for pulling such unannounced antics on a busy cliff in the park with plenty of people around. We ourselves could have easily be taken out by his swing, and just the shock of seeing someone flying at you from above could have caused some other unwarranted falls on the face.
He swung around two or three times, yelling happily to someone how he usually can catch his rappel line on one or two tries. He finally did catch his tag line, and as he did I heard a man yell in panic (another witness who I can see is on the Misery Ridge trail, on his way to the base of MF). What came next was the sound of a body hitting rock, and scree falling down the slope below. The actual mechanism of the victims' entanglement in the line and their first fall was out of our line of sight, but I soon saw a female climber tumbling down the scree and boulder-ridden slope below us; eventually coming to an unconscious halt directly beneath (~100ft) below us.
The man on the swing began yelling remarks like "Oh no!" "I didn't think of that" "No, they weren't with me!". There was a class of teenagers doing the Tyrolean to the mouth cave who undoubtedly saw the incident, I presume he was talking to them.
We quickly prepared for our rappel down to help in the situation and to distance ourselves from the madman on the swing. As we readied ourselves, many bystanders below began to aid the two victims (one at below us unconscious, one out of our sight further up the slope). There appeared to be a trained nurse and others with first-aid know-how. 911 was called immediately.
The slope below us was covered in loose rock, and there was fear from the people helping below that our rap could send more rockfall down on the victim. We were told to stay on our belay ledge until the victim could be moved. We complied, and had a bird's eye view of the rescue process.
It was nearly two hours until the female victim, who was in very critical condition, was removed from the scene. Search and rescue took an hour to arrive at the location, and their attitude toward the situation (from my view) was not as urgent or prepared as the situation warranted. A helicopter was flown in at about 90 minutes after the accident, but across the river so transporting her took much much longer than it should have. The SAR team seemed inexperienced and very slow.
After the female victim was moved (2 hours after her fall), we made our rappel and quickly left the wall. Done for the day we headed to the Terrebonne Depot, where we ran into other climbers who had heard of the accident; including two acquaintances of the man on the rope swing. His name is John, and evidently had been talking of doing the rope swing that weekend to others. The people who knew him said they knew it was a very bad idea to do such a stunt on a busy summer weekend. He did it anyways.
That was my view of the accident, best wishes for the victims' recovery. It's a shame that they were at no fault for this incident. They seemed to have had a great time on Monkey Space, it's too bad that that experience was eclipsed by someone else's poor decisions.
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Slabby D
Trad climber
B'ham WA
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Jul 12, 2011 - 03:02pm PT
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Thanks for posting the eye witness account here.
Can you add any clarity on how the rope swing and rap line were configured?
It sounds like the rap line must have been anchored in the notch or at least hung up somehow such that when the swinger grabbed the rope he essentially pulled it taunt whisking the two victims off.
Thanks.
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ydpl8s
Trad climber
Santa Monica, California
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Jul 12, 2011 - 03:02pm PT
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^^^^^
The man on the swing began yelling remarks like "Oh no!" "I didn't think of that"
I'd say he didn't THINK at all!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 12, 2011 - 04:17pm PT
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The people who knew him said they knew it was a very bad idea to do such a stunt on a busy summer weekend.
Climb on climbing gear; jump on jumping gear. Learn to base if you want to jump off sh#t - don't f*#k around inappropriately on climbing gear.
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