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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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If you see the Petzel hangers winkin' at you, calling you to climb up and clip them like the beckening of the sirens.......then it's probably a sport climb......Here's one we did yesterday;......(put up on the lead, of course....).....(notice the run-outs...).....quick draws only (who wants to place their own gear or set up their own anchor....please.....)...and bolted anchor at top (so you can quickly get down to the beer;....makes sense, doesn't it...)...it's not rocket science.....
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katiebird
climber
yosemite
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 5, 2011 - 02:39pm PT
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Oh, just wondering for conversation sake. We all know what a hot topic bolting can be, especially here in the Valley of giants.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Hardmen put sportclimbs up with hooks.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Dummies put up sport routes on hooks;...smart climbers put them up on rap............(I'm in the dummy catagory;....I still put up all my FAs on the lead....).....
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James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
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if the back of your hand doesn't touch the rock it's sport climbing
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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katiebird,
A climb bolted on lead could be a sport climb by some people's definitions.
I think of a sport climb as one requiring nothing but quick draws.
That can include half rope, low risk, rap bolted routes like the stuff at Owen's or the multi pitch, 5.14, drilled off hooks on lead horror shows on the Ratikon. Some sport routes are definitely more sporty than others.
Hopefully you're not looking for consensus on your question.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day boom-chicka-boom-chicka-boom
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IIRC, Bacher called the BY 5.11 A0 (or some such) when he first walked off it. But I wasn't really paying attention at the time.
Is the BY the defacto yardstick by which bolted-on-lead climbs are measured?
Is leading the BY a trad climb then? Falls do have consequences on it.
There certainly aren't grey areas. Ever. All black and white. Yep.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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The BY has not been led without the bolts.....the dude slipped on the third pitch.
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Greg Barnes
climber
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rap bolted routes like the stuff at Owen's Funny thing is that Owens is often raised as a rap-bolted sport area, but around half the sport routes at Owens were done ground-up. Makes sense, it would be super sketchball to try to get down the stacked pumice-blocks-on-volcanic-dust to the top of many cliffs at Owens - rapping in would be way scarier than climbing ground-up!
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Chief
climber
The NW edge of The Hudson Bay
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Greg,
You're absolutely right and I hope I didn't imply disrespect to all the amazing ground up routes done at Owens. The Gorge is one of my favorite cragging areas, period and it's the first place I think of when using the term "sport climbing".
PB
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I'll second Cheif on that. As a climber I've mostly focused on traditional style routes, but I just love climbing in the Owens Gorge.
How about Pick Pocket for a fun ground up sport climb!
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o-man
Social climber
Paia,Maui,HI
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A non preinspected/rehearsed, ground up, drill on the lead from natural stances is definitely traditional style. The climb may very well be a sport route after the initial send. There is only one opportunity to do the first ascent of a climb. It should be a proud venture and clean as possible.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Can we split this hair three more ways??
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Cinchen- You should pay attention since your writing a guidebook :}
Listing HOW the route was put up tends to steer a climber to this or that.
All routes should have the "Method" of how it was bolted/lead listed.....In a perfect world.
That way, some stone would be saved from POOFTER rap bolters in otherwise trad areas. For fear of embarrasement and slandering.
Believe me getting your name in a book, right next to RAP BOLTED would make more than a few take pause.
But then again, I am a punter...
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Oh trust me, I am paying attention. And method of F.A. should be listed. But not for the purpose of street cred or bragging rights. I'm with Locker....I don't care how you do it but put up solid routes that others will want to climb.
By the way. I don't write guide books. I'm just a graphics guy.
Believe me getting your name in a book, right next to RAP BOLTED would make more than a few take pause.
I do not agree. So Alan Watts is a Poofter?
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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A trad route is a route that can be climbed clean. Trad means that the route could have been led with traditional means, i.e. pitons, and now cams and nuts. If the route was first climbed with "safety bolts", then it NOT a trad route.
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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TRAD areas where a rapbolted route goes in....
yeah, that is the definition of Poofter.
Alan Watts? You tell me, which of his routes are we talking about?
What area?
It does matter, depending on the area.
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Guck
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Ron, You could take any trad route, jam loads of fixed pieces, and it becomes a sport route. What characterizes the trad leader is his or her ability to place protection. If the Nutcracker had fixed pieces every 10 feet, it would become a sports route. Simple.
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F10
Trad climber
e350 / Bishop
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Waiting for someone to mention
"Sport Climbing is Neither"
I like going out and having fun climbing, carry on....
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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FA credits should go to the back of the books again like they used to be...
I think the old timers had it right, egos in back.
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