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Bilbo
Trad climber
Truckee
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Dec 15, 2005 - 05:58pm PT
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Karl, I just repeated his original post.
It's NOT about;
Bolts, freeclimbing, aid climbing, sportclimbing ect...
Its about keeping Yosemite Valley walls BOLD! His words, but I agree.
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
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Dec 15, 2005 - 06:13pm PT
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Bold? Give me a break. WDD is a mid-level aid route. Sure, it's got the potential for serious injury/death on P7. But it's not the cutting edge of aid, or anywhere close to it.
"Bold" is about doing something that nobody else has that's way out there. Repeating WDD for the 17,000th time is NOT bold (bolts or not). Freeing WDD with 3 bolts instead of 7 is bold. Doing a new totally freaky route on the Tower would be bold. Can you do that?
Someone who is chopping bolts on a mid level aid route that they've done before is hardly bold - only shows that someone has to stroke their own ego.
And for the record, free trumps aid. If the free route is totally contrived, you'd better have a good reason for pulling bolts. Saying the original was "bold" (and in the 80's it was), only shows the era you're still in.
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Mr_T
Trad climber
Somewhere, CA
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Dec 15, 2005 - 06:23pm PT
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And I might was well add this. Skinner is a lamer for going up and making a big stink on a wall that cannot go free from the ground. If you're gonna free, do the job right.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Northern Mexico
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2005 - 06:25pm PT
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That's the history of Skinner. Did this not all start with some aid line - Stigma?
Juanito
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Dec 15, 2005 - 06:28pm PT
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having had climbed the route in question (you should NOT get a vote if you haven't climbed the route IMHO) ..
YES
Yes- 4
No - 2
.. at least chop the ones that are within reach of the aid route.
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Ben Rumsen
Social climber
No Name City ( and it sure ain't pretty )
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Dec 15, 2005 - 06:44pm PT
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And I have climbed WDD!
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426
Sport climber
Another slopey nightmare, GA
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Dec 15, 2005 - 06:51pm PT
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I think you refer to"Cowboyography" (aka Brokeback Mountain) 13d, Hueco.
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elemental
Gym climber
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Dec 15, 2005 - 07:06pm PT
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Have the new bolts on the Free Dihedral Wall been removed?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Northern Mexico
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 15, 2005 - 07:12pm PT
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Is it not simple to fix the problem by adopting the rule that no new bolt placed within reach of aid line?
?????
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TradIsGood
Trad climber
Gunks end of country
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Dec 15, 2005 - 10:04pm PT
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At the risk of real blasphemy here. I do not consider Yosemite to qualify as a crag of locals. It is a world class destination, and most of any locals have always been transient. And they, for the most part, all came there from somewhere distant.
For me anyway, local crags would be the three star and lower type crags in Rock and Road. Maybe the crags would be open to debate...
I would say no, even though I do not ever expect to be there. But WTFDIK?
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Northern Mexico
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2005 - 02:05am PT
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When did all this nonsense begin in the valley. Was it the Muir?
So if I want to free an aid line its okay to add bolts?
What is the history of this?
Juan
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NinjaChimp
climber
Davis, CA
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Dec 16, 2005 - 06:33am PT
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yes-4
no-3
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426
Sport climber
Another slopey nightmare, GA
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Dec 16, 2005 - 11:07am PT
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If you want to start in on "Da Muir" then start complaining to Robbins (who added a bolt at the crux on the 2nd ascent).
(Not that I didn't clip it, I was rather relieved to loop that thing-comes right before the belay on C3+ or so....)
Also, the crux belays on Muir weren't bolted by Cos and the General, they veered left onto the Shield to finish the potential FFA. There was a whole lotta schwag up there when we did it, but I've heard ASCA and others put in some bombs.
From what I saw, the free var. that was bolted goes a little below the bolt ladder (3d into Nose section) and then follows some pitches off the Muir during the middle, crossing then finishing left.
For what it's worth...
"At the risk of real blasphemy here. I do not consider Yosemite to qualify as a crag of locals."
I'll blaspheme too, I agree with ya...
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Dec 16, 2005 - 11:16am PT
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The chopping issue started with Robbins on the "Dawn Wall" ...No??
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Dec 16, 2005 - 11:17am PT
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Make a real statement and chop all the bolts on the route, even
at the belays and the first pitches. Then, chisel hook placements
so the thing can be clean aided. Who cares what it looks like as long as we can play our games.
:- k
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Huge Balls
Big Wall climber
Darkside of the Moon
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Dec 16, 2005 - 01:18pm PT
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Some of you have lost context of the situation. In order for Turd Skimmer to so-call free climb this route, he had to add the protection of bolts for his security and well being. Even if there are only a couple next to the existing route, why not use the pro that the aid climbers have to use?
Poor form Turd Skimmer, Poor form
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Northern Mexico
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 16, 2005 - 01:42pm PT
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Huge Balls,
I thought that was the rule. One had to use existing pro?
Have the rules changed?
Juan
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Dec 16, 2005 - 01:49pm PT
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"Have the rules changed?"
Depends on who you talk to...
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Bilbo
Trad climber
Truckee
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Dec 16, 2005 - 01:58pm PT
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It really comes down to this quote from Skinner;
"I have never considered the first-ascentionists to be the owners of the route"-TS
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Tuan DeLusion
Social climber
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Dec 16, 2005 - 02:02pm PT
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Leave the bolts alone. Remove Juan's loose screws.
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