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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
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I edited my comment to reflect no presumption. Ill edit even further to omit you from the context if you would like. Christians are christians. They all have the same make-believe friend.
And if you take your kids to church, you have then forced them into early indoctrination.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:29pm PT
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I think there is plenty of anti-scientific pronouncements from both the left and the right...
However, when the language starts to echo from the historic past I worry... this from Andrew Schafly's Conservapedia (a conservative competitor to Wikipedia):
The theory of relativity is a mathematical system that allows no exceptions. It is heavily promoted by liberals who like its encouragement of relativism and its tendency to mislead people in how they view the world.[1] Here is a list of 30 counterexamples: any one of them shows that the theory is incorrect.
http://www.conservapedia.com/Counterexamples_to_Relativity
Just so this is clear: there are no scientists who question Special or General Relativity as being foundations to physics as we understand it today.
However, this sounds like pronouncements from Germany in the 30's, e.g.:
German politicians and scientists began to attack Nature at the inauguration of the Lenard Institute in Heidelberg in 1936, and in 1938 the Zeitschrift für die gesamte Naturwissenschaft published an article referring to Nature as an "abominable" journal, saying that: "Earlier its [Nature's] task was to report in an objective, easily understood way about all areas of natural science. But today one finds baiting articles against national socialist Germany in every issue." These articles were allegedly "mostly based on democratic-liberal and Jewish feelings of hatred." Nature's correspondents were further accused of having created an anti-fascist espionage organization in Germany and Italy, starting in 1933.
http://www.nature.com/nature/history/full/nature06242.html
The concept of "liberals," "liberal science" and conspiracy shockingly parallel political commentary in the US today.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:30pm PT
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But in his 2011 budget request issued on Monday, Mr Obama said the project was too costly, "behind schedule, and lacking in innovation". "This isn't a step backwards. I think the step backwards was trying to recreate the Moon landings of 40 years ago using largely yesterday's technology, instead of game-changing new technology that can take us further, faster and more affordably into space."
Jim Kohlenberger, chief of staff at the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy (OSTP)
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cmclean
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:32pm PT
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This exact topic was just examined in an editorial in Nature: http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v467/n7312/full/467133a.html
In general it's pretty depressing, though there is one okay quote:
"In the current poisoned political atmosphere, the defenders of science have few easy remedies. Reassuringly, polls continue to show that the overwhelming majority of the US public sees science as a force for good, and the anti-science rumblings may be ephemeral."
Hopefully so...
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:32pm PT
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Mtnmun-
Maybe you'd better get out your Constitution and read exactly the phrasing of the 1st amendment. Separation of Church and State? No. That's a later supreme Court interpretation. The Constitution of this country was written by some very devout and Christion Patriots. What they wrote has guaranteed your right to engage in this particular discourse; be thankful that they did so... In an Islamic country you would probably have either your hands chopped off for writing what you have written, or your tongue torn out.
Of course, that's just my "conservative" viewpoint. :D
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:34pm PT
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Chinchen: BDC,(if you are a x-tian) you are the cultist I describe. every day folk who follow pre-described paths of "knowledge" in the name of good. Unwittingly brainwashing their children into bigoted, closed minded zealots who will eventually become you and vote for Sarah Palin....
Lighten up on BDC!
Calm down and get off your podium of trying to polarize and antagonize people.
There is a huge difference between traditional conservatives and the “nut-cases that talk to God and currently rule the Republican Party.
BDC is intelligent, calm, and politically conservative.
He is also fun, liberal, and an all-around great person.
If you can’t work those thoughts together, maybe you are---
I will let the viewers choose the answer.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
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The theory of relativity is a mathematical system that allows no exceptions. It is heavily promoted by liberals who like its encouragement of relativism and its tendency to mislead people in how they view the world.[1] Here is a list of 30 counterexamples: any one of them shows that the theory is incorrect.
What the f*#k is wrong with these people?
I wish these dipshits would retreat to a cave, stop voting and breeding, and leave the world to rational folks to run.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:36pm PT
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Dr. F, you are correct,
especially since biology as a science has evolution as its foundation
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:38pm PT
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Ed, I would be interested in having you direct me to the credible sources
that substantiate your claim that the "left" has made anti science statements.
From your comment, one would think that you believe that both right and left
politically are "the same" in being anti science.
The reason I ask is because I could write a book on how the political right
is anti science, but I cannot recall much, ok anything, that the left has
professed to be anti science.
Thank you in advance.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:41pm PT
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Hey Fritz, Im super calm, sipping tea, and not attacking BDC personally since I don't know him. Just putting my perspective on the topic.
If saying christians suck by virtue of their beliefs and ability to ignore facts is "antagonistic" then so be that.
There is a huge difference between traditional conservatives and the “nut-cases that talk to God and currently rule the Republican Party. This is total malarkey. they are one and the same. I know plenty of them. On the flip, I don't know a SINGLE conservative who doesn't profess to believe in god.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:46pm PT
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Chinchen-
FYI. I don't attend church, and have never taken my children to church. They're both adults now, and if they choose to attend now, that's their business. Personally I consider the "profession" of clergyman to be somewhere in the neighborhood of child molester on a relative scale. Anyone paid to spoon feed the masses "salvation' on Sunday doesn't set well with me. I know exactly ONE Christian clergyman who, although states that is his calling, refuses to accept ANYTHING in compensation and doles money out of his own pockets to those in need. He too, is a rancher and hay farmer to support himself in a frugal lifestyle. He has my utmost respect, too.
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Chinchen
climber
Way out there....
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:49pm PT
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Alrighty then. Glad we see eye to eye. Tell me what makes you a right winger to your colleagues? Are you saying that most scientists are waaay left?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:50pm PT
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There are two right wings that ignore science. Fundamentalists or Politicians using bad science to justify selfish acts.
Both them them hire real scientists when they want somebody to design new bombs and missles
Peace
Karl
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:55pm PT
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Norton-
Read Paul Johnson's book "Modern Times!" Hint: have a good dictionary and a thesaurus handy to complete your education in use of the English language!! Mr. Johnson is formidable!
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Sep 12, 2010 - 11:56pm PT
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Chinchen:
There is a huge difference between traditional conservatives and the “nut-cases that talk to God and currently rule the Republican Party.
This is total malarkey. they are one and the same. I know plenty of them. On the flip, I don't know a SINGLE conservative who doesn't profess to believe in god.
I'm sorry that you have not been hanging with the right conservatives.
My "billy-bob" older brother hangs with the old-folks in "small-town" Idaho and emails me the all the current anti-Obama spew.
He is a very-aggressive atheist.
I have several more conservative/right wing friends that are also atheists.
I think it is important to realize the Republicans have swept up and polarized a huge group of people that have little in common, except their dislike of: “what’s happening to America.”
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Sep 13, 2010 - 12:00am PT
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Dr. F--
Those books were probably all written by Democrats?! :>)
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 13, 2010 - 12:00am PT
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Norton - certainly the who arena of "genetic modification" is an area where "deep environmentalism" confronts science. While there is much to be cautious about, the application of the "precautionary principle" is often used by what would be termed "left wing" groups to block actions that they view as undesirable.
The Cassini-Hugens mission ended up in court because of fears regarding its radioisotope thermoelectric generators (RTG), powered by 238Pu, here in Mother Jones: http://motherjones.com/politics/1997/09/cassini-controversy
much of the controversy had been studied and evaluated. My opinion was that a great deal of care had been taken to make the mission safe.
Scientists have been characterized by the "left wing" as "right wingers" as I recall during the Viet Nam War protest period...
...I can dig for more, I suspect scientists hold views that are abhorrent to both the left and the right wing.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Sep 13, 2010 - 12:02am PT
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Ed- You are correct with your last statement in your post!!
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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Sep 13, 2010 - 12:05am PT
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Chinchen- Several of my colleagues think that I'm "pink!" Too middle road on several issues.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 13, 2010 - 12:11am PT
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"It seems the Murdoch/Rove/NeoCon strategy is to scare the less educated masses to the voting booth by creating distrust of science and intelligence."
This ground has been heavily and disastrously trodden in the past.
The sound byte used this time was "elite".
We have progressed!
Two extra letters.
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