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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 18, 2010 - 07:04pm PT
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He says they are all AMGA certified but he hasn't named one.
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sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2010 - 09:51pm PT
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Ron you're right, we suck......
Anybody want to talk about positive guide industry stuff, I'm all in!!!!!!!!
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Jul 18, 2010 - 09:58pm PT
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PCGI original 5 Board Members were:
Nick Farley - AMGA Certified Rock Instructor - non longer BOD member
Zeke Federman - Previously Certified AMGA Single-Pitch Instructor - Was AMGA SPI Certified, gave it up in 2009) still BOD member
Albert Nugue - General Manager of Southern Yosemite Mountain Guides ( never AMGA certified or taken any AMGA courses) Still BOD member
Ian Elman - President of Southern Yosemite Mountain Guides (never AMGA Certified or taken AMGA courses) Still BOD member
Zach Schnieder - Degree from Prescott College Outdoor leadership (Never taken any AMGA courses) Still BOD Member
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PCGI's first technical director was Dave Lane - AMGA Certfied Rock Guide. He served PCGI and tech director for 2 years. No Longer PCGI Tech Director
Chis Eckland also served PCGI as a technical committee member for 2 years and is AMGA Rock Guide Certified and is still licensed as a mentor and assessor for/by PCGI.
Setha Zaharias - PCGI technical committee member and previously Certified AMGA Top Rope Site Manager, but Voluntarily gave up AMGA TRSM cert in 2008. Still PCGI Technical Committee Member
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Currently in process of becoming a PCGI mentor and Assessor: Alan Jolley - Alan is a AMGA Certified Rock Guide and one of the original creators of AMGA rock guide and rock instructor training and certification program.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 18, 2010 - 10:07pm PT
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i have to hand it to ST--it has me laughing out loud at least a couple times a day. this was almost as good as the "clucking" links--but not quite.
don't cry, ron. bring the torch and stake over to the 9/11 thread--witches galore.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 18, 2010 - 11:35pm PT
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Well I just got an email from sethsquatch,
" Who are you? Whats your beef? We at PCGI have done nothing but try to make the guide training world a better place. Your negativity is frustrating. "
Seth,
who I am is well known on this site, who are YOU?
Oh, I see from zeker's post you are not an AMGA certified rock guide!!
So the statement by Tony;
ron, these guys are all amga certified..
was less than truthful.
Well good, wonderful, you are trying to make the world a better place. Great!
You might start working on the candor issue.
BTW, I do know a little about AMGA certification...
I might have more respect for the PCGI if I hadn't heard BS like
ron, these guys are all amga certified..
before.
Not all certs are created equal.
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nick farley
climber
bishop
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Jul 18, 2010 - 11:38pm PT
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I better add here that I stepped away from my pcgi role.
Pretty sure some of the other guys listed there left the group too.
Nick Farley
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nick farley
climber
bishop
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:08am PT
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The truth about it is; there is no harm in another group doing trainings, and offering a variety of certifications in rock climbing instruction. Especially no big deal if there are some high standards, transparency, etc. Competetion? Might just drive forward the whole guide scene a bit.
That was my thinking when I participated, (hardly started) in pcgi.
The guides are all running low on clients. Economy or something.
Guides now need to train guides to supplement the income.
Anyway, reality of working with pcgi sucked. Pcgi is mostly what zeke says or does for it. Anybody who knows Zeker will tell you what a great guy he is.
(With a few key croonies and tag alongs in chorus.)
Oh wait, Frank S excluded.
God bless you guys.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Springdale UT
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:10am PT
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I took a TR site cert through the AMGA and it wasnt bad per se, just a bit out of touch. I took one course with PCGI just to give it a whirl and I was really impressed. The merits of certifications in and of themselves may be debatable, but in terms of the services offered and the personal level of attention and the attention to technical detail, I'd give PCGI my money any day of the week...and still have more left over than if I dumped twice as much into an equivalent cert through AMGA.
I have had both Zeke and Seth as instructors and I can attest that there are no better instructors out there. Not saying that the AMGA has poor instructors, but these guys are no slouches and I would like to think I know a thing or two about quality of instruction (generally speaking) having spent a few years teaching at the university level and running swim lesson programs.
I might be wandering off topic, but I'll take that chance.
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:21am PT
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Wording Correction: Nick Farley was one of the 5 original Board Members of PCGI, when the PCGI non-profit was formed in 2008. That is just simply a fact. Maybe founding BOD member was poor choice of words on my part.
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nick farley
climber
bishop
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Jul 19, 2010 - 12:43am PT
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Wording Correction:
The PCgi does not suck. Those guys are all super phyched to teach you how to teach rock climbing. Amga isn't for everybody.
Zeke please visit me anytime in the Gunks. I would love to show you around and try some harder routes with you.
Seth, same for you. Set your annual get together in New Paltz next year.
So many good 5.10's and 11's.
Cheers
Nick
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Jul 19, 2010 - 01:02am PT
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Right on Nick. Hope you and your family are doing well. Its hot here in Bishop! Maybe someday, see Farley/Federman in the Guide books back east, just like in the Bishop guide book! I wish you all the best.
Cheers,
Zeke
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Jul 19, 2010 - 01:23am PT
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I am 100% confident that Seth Zaharais (aka sethsquatch) has only claimed to posses PCGI Certified Multi-Pitch Guide Certification and in the past possessed AMGA Certified Top Rope Site Manager cert, which he let expire a few years ago.
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Jul 19, 2010 - 02:33am PT
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Hey Porkchop express, you say you did swim lessons, sounds fun, would you care to tell all on this forum what you do now? I'm thinking you own a guide service in Zion. Am I Correct?
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MTucker
Ice climber
Arizona
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Jul 19, 2010 - 02:42am PT
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Single-Pitch Instructor, Top Rope Site Manager, Prescott College Outdoor leadership?????
Talk about the lowest of the low. These certs only say one thing, you paid for diploma that means nothing.
Single-Pitch Instructor, Top Rope Site Manager were made up by AMGA to cater to the lowest common denominator in teaching others to climb, camp counselors and gym employees.
Not even close to a Full CERT or UIAGM. It is terrible that they even offer these one day seminars.
Prescott College is where trust fund hippies go.
How many Prescott College students does it take to screw in a light bulb???
I don't know but they got 3 credits for it.
Prescott College - hike, make up your own BS "outdoor" program, Daddy signs check = Degree
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"""PCGI original 5 Board Members were:
Nick Farley - AMGA Certified Rock Instructor - non longer BOD member
Zeke Federman - Previously Certified AMGA Single-Pitch Instructor - Was AMGA SPI Certified, gave it up in 2009) still BOD member
Albert Nugue - General Manager of Southern Yosemite Mountain Guides ( never AMGA certified or taken any AMGA courses) Still BOD member
Ian Elman - President of Southern Yosemite Mountain Guides (never AMGA Certified or taken AMGA courses) Still BOD member
Zach Schnieder - Degree from Prescott College Outdoor leadership (Never taken any AMGA courses) Still BOD Member
_
PCGI's first technical director was Dave Lane - AMGA Certfied Rock Guide. He served PCGI and tech director for 2 years. No Longer PCGI Tech Director
Chis Eckland also served PCGI as a technical committee member for 2 years and is AMGA Rock Guide Certified and is still licensed as a mentor and assessor for/by PCGI.
Setha Zaharias - PCGI technical committee member and previously Certified AMGA Top Rope Site Manager, but Voluntarily gave up AMGA TRSM cert in 2008. Still PCGI Technical Committee Member"""
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jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
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Jul 19, 2010 - 02:53am PT
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Seth,
who I am is well known on this site, WTF are YOU?
Oh, I see from zeker's post you are not an AMGA certified rock guide!!
So the statement;
ron, these guys are all amga certified..
was less than truthful.
Well good, wonderful, you are trying to make the world a better place. Great!
You might start working on the candor issue.
nice one smart guy.
Talk about going off half cocked...jeez. Apology in order? I don't have a clue who sethsquatch is...but I know what I need to know about you.
This is why interwebs argumentificationizing is so flippin' annoying...too much bs. It would be funny if it wasn't so stooooopid.
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Jul 19, 2010 - 03:10am PT
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Too bad I have to go guide/work again most of the day tomorrow, if not I would love to sit around and chat with all my super topo forum buds. Good night all. Sweet Dreams and Good Things to all!
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
Springdale UT
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Jul 19, 2010 - 08:24am PT
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Hey Zeke--
I dont Own a guide service in Zion but I do work for one--due largely in part to the follow-up mentoring I received from you and Seth after I took some courses. Speaking of which...I have to get out and work today, for a little while at least!
Steve
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Jul 19, 2010 - 09:58am PT
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If I take a girl and pay for dinner and movies, and then have sex with her;...it's called a date. If I take a girl out and give her money for sex, I am a criminal and a bad man and can/should go to jail.. Is their a parallel to this in the climbing/guiding world?
(Hats off to our professional guides;...they work very hard, long hours, in oftentimes foul weather/conditions with delicate funky city folk, no insurance, no retirement, poor pay, living in cars/tents, expensive and difficult certification courses, and then there is hardly any work....bravo to the professional guides....hats off to you guys...)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 19, 2010 - 10:14am PT
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OK, my error quoting the wrong person.
But a top rope cert is hardly the same as a certified rock guide!
And, once again, the AMGA has UIAGM parity.
While PCGI courses may be terrific, they do not.
Why did they form?
Could it be that some people didn't measure up or were insecure about being evaluated about others?
Can you really blame me for seeing those who try to side step the AMGA process as spoilers?
In a past experience with a PCGI guide service I was told they had "all kinds" of certifications throwing out an alphabet soup including AMGA.
But when I looked into it not one of them was AMGA certified.
I got a whiff of the same soup in this thread.
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zeker
Trad climber
bishop
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Jul 19, 2010 - 10:19am PT
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Back round and findings: I have owned a guide service http://www.sierrarockclimbingschool.com for 10 years and been guiding for 15, climbing for 20 years and live in Bishop, Ca. I have done FA's in Southern Yosemite and the Eastern Sierra, many in the 5.10-11 range, some listed in the Bishop Area climbing guide book, some still kept secret! I have hired and worked with many guides. Some have been AMGA Rock Guide and Rock Instructor Certified, AMGA SPI and TRSM Certified, some PCGI MPG, TRG ,Lead Guide and SPG Certified, some not certified at all by anyone. Bottom line they have all provided our clients with safe and enjoyable climbing experiences. The Certified AMGA TRSM's, SPI's and PCGI Top Rope Guides and Single Pitch Guides have done outstanding jobs as guides for my company as well and have all been competent. From my experience, all the levels of certification from all training/cert orgs and within all "levels" of training/certs are not higher or lower compared to each other, they are all just different from each other. The time required to train and/or obtain each different type of cert is directly related to the specifics of the terrain involved and the applicable techniques and standards applied.
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