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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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May 24, 2010 - 11:34pm PT
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I always root for the bull whenever the subject of bullfighting comes up. i much prefer the american style where the bullfighter dresses like a clown, has no wepons and dose not hurt the bull.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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May 24, 2010 - 11:46pm PT
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Even though I agree with most of the lefties here most of the time, DMT, Pate, etc., I disagree 100% with your ideas on Bulling fighting; it is a beautiful tradition. Sad that you can not see the art in it. Every one of these bulls lives a better life than the pork you eat, than the chickens that lay your eggs. If you are Vegan I have no argument against you but the rest of you are hypocrites. Sometimes tradition and culture is important. The men and women who fight the bull are no cowards, read up on it and get a life you shallow losers.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2010 - 12:05am PT
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I'm curious if you've ever been to a bull fight mrtropy? Killing an animal is one thing but the other aspect of the bullfight that I found a bit unsettling was the crowd response.
I agree that the matador is at great risk when he enters the ring and the pas de duex between the bull & the matador can be quite graceful and spectacular. However, the bull is injured by several toreodores and bleeding profusely before the matador enters the ring. Two men on horses with long lances, picadores, and then three banderilleros place 2 metal hooked spears each into the bull. You can see the banderillas in all the photos posted here. It's true that bullfighting has been part of Spanish culture for centuries and bullfights still go on in Madrid & Southern Spain but they have been discontinued in Barcelona.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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May 25, 2010 - 12:15am PT
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"There are only three sports: bullfighting, motor racing, and mountaineering; all the rest are merely games."
The phrase was probably coined by Barnaby Conrad or Ken Purdy.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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May 25, 2010 - 12:40am PT
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Yes TT I have, I and felt the tradition was stronger than the killing. I have hunted but do so no more and I respect those hunters who kill and treat their game well much more than anyone who buys meat at a market. I think it would be good for anyone who eats meat to kill, dress, and butcher an animal. Almost all cultures, if not all, who hunt give thanks to the animal they have killed, I did so in my own way. It is a more healthful and clean way to live. The bull fighters give thanks to their advisories. Those animals live a better life than modern stock. The meat goes to charity, at least it used to.
A few minutes in a bull ring is nothing compared to cruelty that we treat modern farm animals. Yes I have seem c*#k fights in Bali, I have Siamese fighting fish, and dog fighting makes me sick. But we all draw our lines somewhere. Don't like ritualized killing? Tell all Muslim, Jews and others.
Meat's meat and people got to eat.
Cheers
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2010 - 12:50am PT
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I recently saw the documentary film "Cove" about the Japanese slaughter of 1,000s of dolphins each season for their consumption. Although I found this outrageous, I don't really see that this is any different than the mega corn fed beef industry in this country that supplies fast food chains.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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May 25, 2010 - 12:58am PT
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You Cheer the "bull" until it is your brother on the other side.
Cove- a movie everyone should watch. My daughter cried her eyes out, she did not finish it, watch it NPR has a good podcast on it.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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May 25, 2010 - 12:59am PT
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Poor bull. They should have put the loser down, not the winner.
No sh#t.
And yes, I've attended bull fights. And yes, I understand the moment of truth that a matador faces.
But it is still a barbaric torture session that no sane human should countenance. mrtropy, how would you like me to take your favorite pet dog (who has had a far better life than any raised-for-meat chicken or cow) and subject him to public torture and inevitable death. Would you praise that? Or, if you don't have a dog, how about your daughter?
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go-B
climber
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May 25, 2010 - 01:24am PT
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That's taken the Bull by the Horns??
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Rudder
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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May 25, 2010 - 01:26am PT
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How did we get going on this? <rollling my eyes>
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rwedgee
Ice climber
canyon country,CA
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May 25, 2010 - 01:38am PT
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"You mess with the bull, you get the horn" As it should be. The bulls neck muscules have been cut before the "fight" so he can barely lift his head. Note the 4 daggers sticking out both sides above his shoulders. It's like being awake for 72 hours when you can barely pick your head up, but with knives in your spine. Not even close to being a fair fight. The bull should have been canonised.
PS; ever been to a bull "fight" ? The clothes they wear are very thick material(not wicking moisture) and it's usually hot and humid. Yes, they stink. As do most mariachis
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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May 25, 2010 - 01:49am PT
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Ghost thank you for comparing my daughter to a dog. Public Torture?
You statement makes me sick. Rather than attack your simple and stupid statement come climb a day with me and we will talk. My email is good and I can take to unknown crags in CA. But I would like you to say sorry for what you said about my daughter.
Bluring one time time said sorry for what he said or implied , and I respect him for it. Thanks again, Bluring. Let's see if you can man up to an apology.
Jeff
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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May 25, 2010 - 02:11am PT
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hey there say, tuolome_tradster... ooops, i should have clarified more...
(i did later)...
yeah, i did realize that, i was just trying in a confusing way to say that so much these days, is done with photo shops, and they don't seeme to care that these kind of things are no joke to make fun of folks and injuries...
thus, when something serious does happen, folks tend to be "less shocked" or less caring to the poor individual... i guess i was kind of making the match to the desensitizing that tv, does, too, to kids... making them not really understand how bad the real is...
oh my... but really, thanks so much for tring to help me understand, just case, i was off the mark, i did sound like i didn't explain myself too clear....
oh---also, i like listening to your report of when you in spain with your folks... we learn so much here of where and what folks have done... it is really amazing...
i also just read a small report, now, here, from radical riley as to bullfighting and as to the doctoring work, as he works in the emergency rooms, if i remember that part right...
:)
*oh, i dont like bull fighting, but i sure do understand how kids over in these countries do grow up with this as a cultural thing and see it entirely different....
(i suppose in man's early hunting days, no guns, etc.. and needind food, it was to man's advantage to weaken and run a critter down, and then lastly kill it... and perhaps, some men-folks got into being skilled and thus artfully dodging, etc, and it led up to all this... but these bulls are not wild critter, and they are in a rink, and can't leave for the run, very sad... so it seems a bit all warped once food was NOT needed in these ways... ***edit(messed up the spelling here and i forgot the word, not)...
oh my...
well, my best wishes for him and his family, as he heals up...
they will need food on the table, if, that was his only income (??)
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Guernica
climber
slow music for fast times
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May 25, 2010 - 02:11am PT
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Yeah that daughter comment was way out of line.
Anyway, I'm a bowhunter (a responsible and respectful one, I think) and as such have thought alot about the ethics of killing animals for food. All life survives on life, and even herbivores kill living plants. Everyone draws the line somewhere I suppose, but a person with leather shoes or upholstery better be pretty careful casting moral indictments on others. I don't know how all this relates to spanish bull fighting, but I'm open to learning more about it.
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2010 - 02:23am PT
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Guernica: curious about your screen name? are you from Guernica? My paternal grandmother's brother, last name Arteche, lived in Guernica.
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Guernica
climber
slow music for fast times
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May 25, 2010 - 02:38am PT
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Unfortunately TT I have no exotic spanish blood, I'm just another mostly-german european mutt. I simply like the painting and art in general so I thought I'd use it as my screen name. Thanks for posting that photo, especially appropriate for this thread given the bull depicted!
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2010 - 02:55am PT
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Guernica is a beautiful city. The food there is excellent, especially sea food. Calamares en su tinta (Squid in ink sauce). They know how to enjoy meals...when you order wine, they serve each person at the table a bottle.
Guernica is Basque. The Basques don't really consider themselves to be Spanish.
That painting was banned in Spain by Franco while he was alive. The painting depicts the horror experienced by the inhabitants of Guernica while it was being destroyed by aerial bombing in the Spanish Civil War.
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ec
climber
ca
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May 25, 2010 - 02:58am PT
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What goes around comes around...
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tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
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Topic Author's Reply - May 25, 2010 - 03:01am PT
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bergbryce: LOL, thanks for posting that...hilarious! Almost looks like the bull knew what he was doing there.
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