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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:42pm PT
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I've climbed bolted cracks, and have enjoyed it. This in areas where 90+% of the climbs are bolted, and few, if anybody, carry trad gear.
Bolted cracks in trad areas? Chop the bolts.
I've found that young upstarts (especially those who's first climb was in a gym) come to the crags with the idea that they are entitled to well-protected routes. Why not bolt everything so you don't need trad gear (heck, that stuff is expensive). Why shouldn't we be able to put bolts where ever we want?
I have seen areas where you can clip bolts on 3 "routes" from a single stance, so great is the desire to make a mark.
Wise is the idea to contact the perpetrators and have them make good on their oversight.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:42pm PT
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I put up a new route with 3 bolts at Sloaf a few years ago (an unprotectable chimney).
I got yelled at for not putting in 5 bolts and....."NOT ASKING PERMISSION" because somebody was "SAVING" that rout for their own FA. Said person even told me he had told others they could not do it because he was saving it for himself....
Whatever
Its just climbing.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:57pm PT
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GhoulweJ, are you proud that you put bolts on a crack in a trad area? Who's to say that fella wasn't honing his chimney technique so he could lead it in style, placing pro where he might find it?
A chimney without pro is a rare find. And now it's been bolted into submission. Not very proud, I'd say.
Respect. It's a quality that seems to lack takers these days.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 11, 2010 - 12:58pm PT
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Its definatly not easy to figer out how to keep most of the cats happy and not clawing and spitting.. The key is to try and think of how your project is going to affect other climbers.
I used to climb with a guy who is 6ft5in tall and he would ocasionaly piss me off by bolting just out of my reach. I am only 5.9 but I still place bolts a few inches down from my my maximum reach from the stance if possible so that shorter climbers may also have fun on that climb. I also have passed up more than a few climbs that I felt could be bolted but shouldn't be bolted. That being said I have also pissed off more than a few folks by bolting stuff they though shouldn't be bolted.
You can't please everyone but you can try to be considerate in your actions...
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 11, 2010 - 01:01pm PT
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Kman, without climbing it we don't know if the bolts are good or not. its all speculation. I ahve been in a few chimnys that I would have sold my mothers soul for a big fat shiny bolt;)
Again, Climb it before you judge it. That is always a good place to start from.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 01:04pm PT
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K-Man: Dude, you are way way out of line.
In reply to the tone of your post: bite me
In reply to the text, the chimney is 2 parallel walls of smooth granite about 4 feet apart (read back against wall, legs extended out and feet against other wall.... The height is about 70 feet. I free soloed it first then put in as few bolts I felt it could get by with. I love the climb. As I told the complainer, "if u want more bolts, you put em in. I don't care, I already did it".
Dude, there is no other way to protect this climb... Chill.
EDIT: I did not bolt the route Norwed is speaking of. I actually cleaned that route and found it to go free at 5.9..... So there (read playground sarcasm).
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burntheman
Trad climber
slt
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Apr 11, 2010 - 01:45pm PT
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"Alas, let me ask several prominent developers in the area who happen to be friends of mine about it and see if they know what the deal is. If it is deemed that they are inappropriate for the area, I'll ask (developers) that they remove them." Salamanizer
Here you go again. Continuing with your self-righteous approach to handling community issues by talking with a small group of people to provide a solution. HAllelujah! Salamanizer Salvation.
Before I continue let me say I have not seen the routes in question but they sound highly suspicious. I have seen several other atrocious bolted lines at the loaf as of late. And just like all climbers am concerned with access issues that can arise from resource impact; including but not limited to, waste, erosion, parking, and overbolting in some instances.
I have a problem with your handling of community issues. It wasn't long ago myself and lots other climbers sent you emails regarding your involvement in route destruction and THEFT OF PROPERTY at BRR. The barrage of emails from concerned climbers who constitute a large part of the community went ignored. You made hasty decisions within your elitist sect of a FEW climbers that effected the whole community. Not until several prominent climbers reached out to you did you care to enter the dialogue concerning BRR.
It is not up to you, after only talking with a few people you respect, to make a decision concerning ANY route alteration. Again, the current routes in question are not a major concern right now. It is the broader and continuing problem of your self-righteous and elitist approach to handling community issues that effect all climbers. You are not my savior.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 11, 2010 - 02:22pm PT
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GhoulweJ, you solo'ed the parallel-sided chimney, then bolted it.
But, you don't care if someone adds more bolts, because you've already done it?
What is wrong here?
First, you already did it before you added any bolts to it. If you didn't care, why did you add bolts in the first place? Why not leave the thing alone so others could also see the crack in its original form, and choose whether or not to climb it, much like you did?
You think I am out of line by standing up to bolting cracks in a trad area. I think you're out of line for doing it. Especially since the crack was climbed without the bolts.
Perhaps you can explain why you bolted the route.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 02:34pm PT
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Kman, u need to switch to decaf. Seriously.
I freesoled it out of RESPECT for the history of the area!
I do NOT freesolo on a regular basis.
I bolted it because:
A::: It is a friggin awesome chimney!
B::: There is NO other way to protect it. Period.
C::: I want to continue to climb it, but not freesolo it.
Come out and climb it. You will thank me for all 3 bolts.... And for the climb.
EDIT: After being attacked about the first bolt being scary high. I almost added one lower.... Painted pink. But decided to not bother.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 02:56pm PT
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:03pm PT
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Mdusa
Where B that baby!
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skychild
Trad climber
Birmingham, Alabama
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:17pm PT
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High Chad, I don't know if I consider someone who bolts up 50 foot scabby, slabby, face routes a "prominent" first ascentionist. More like someone with their sites set too low and resorts to having to go to an area that is basically "tapped" out (for new routes that is) and have to pick up the rotting fruit. The rock in the chimney climb is stellar, but heh, any one could bolt up that thing, it must have beem harrrd on lead though;)
Prominent, very doubtful. Bottom feeders, with zero vision more likely. Just sayin" Don
Amphibians still suck! Especially self righteous ones. Frogs are still cool.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:24pm PT
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Skychild
If u are referencing the chimney in the picture, I never claimed it to be "prominent".
Is it a good chimney? I think yes.
Am I chasing FA's???
Naw. I actually prefer to use the bit of time I have to climb, not scrubing and doing all that time eating FA work. I've done a few FA's, a bit of rock scrubbing, and found I prefer climbing the limitless routes put up by others.
That being said, I do have a route at Sloaf that is about 3 stars that needs to be finished (started a few years ago.).
Cheers,
Jay Renneberg
EDIT:
Skychild, I re-read your post... You are correct to insinuate , it was bolted on rap. That is why I figured the the least I could do was freesolo it first (I do not typicaly solo).
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:25pm PT
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C::: I want to continue to climb it, but not freesolo it.
This works for me. I was afraid of an answer like "I want others to be able to do the thing." Which would seem kind of self-righteous after you'd done it yourself.
Sorry if I seem over-the-top on this, but I fear people who bolt things just because they find a line and they have a drill. I'll get up there, the thing looks hella cool. And I'll probably thank you for the pro.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:29pm PT
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I feel that it is a good thing to think of other folks climbing you route. It's called being thoughtfull and considerate of others.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:37pm PT
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or, don't chop 'em...
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skychild
Trad climber
Birmingham, Alabama
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:39pm PT
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No offense Ghoul, I'm pretty sure you're not into self promotion,etc. I was poking fun at the individual who seems to know everyhting that is going on, everyhere. He called the people involved in the new route development as prominent. I don't really know whether or not that you are amoung those sanctioned by the S-mizer, as being "ok" to set up routes for everyone to enjoy. I climbed the chimney and was happy to have the bolts and I would probabally never have climbed it without them. Thanks for that.
S mizer is god and his will be dun. Climbs he feels are "ok", most likely put up by his friends, shall have no opposition, but when he thinks a route is no good, bye'bye forever, no matter how good the climb is or how much time energy and money goes into it. Bye Don
Alex there's of employment opportuniies at Smith Rock for your skill set. Have fun its alot easier to destroy than create.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2010 - 03:42pm PT
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i had within an exotic speal,
but instead, i'll allow cold crusty reality it's rightful voice.
uh oh. norwegian is about...
so the route is plenty safe with a small rack up to a 2" piece.
(less the 8 bolts that are spaced 5' apart)
the reason that my panties are all in a knot (occasionally i do don women's underpants if mine are all dirty), is that i want my children to enjoy this crag, with the option of travelling the path of the warrior, without having to look past the path of the coward.
and chad, since you brought it up... i looked at the adjacent chimney around the corner, which looks mildly 5th class, and the clowns have struck here too. two bolts protecting wide climbing with immediate natural protection opportunities.
bring in the crowbars. i will pry and fight and sing a song to the woeful cowards whom sunk these bolts... im sure with pure intentions.. but unfortunately with the side effects of LITTER.
and... since i was within the path of my warrior, i went around the corner..... see adjacent thread.
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Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2010 - 03:53pm PT
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weschrist, i think that you are wrong.
have you tread this path?
the bolts are there for the chimney climber, with his/her back on climber's right wall to conveniently clip as they pretend they are real.
they are coming down and i will be the one who does it and i will fend my stance as necessary. these fukers are getting much too bold in their free time and turning a beautiful and historic area into a mock climbing gym.
there is no room for compromise here. the acts and counter acts are boldly ill and logical.
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skychild
Trad climber
Birmingham, Alabama
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Apr 11, 2010 - 03:54pm PT
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Wescrist that may be true, but why? Seems like a big waste of money. If you can clip then while inside the chimney then they should go, heh Chad where are you? If not, it's a seperate line and problly should stand. But I'm not god so I can't judge on this matter Heh Chad where are you? The place blows anyway so bolt chop rebolt all you want. Go find something constructive to do, maybe even put up a quality route of your own.
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