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sac
Trad climber
spuzzum
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Next time man up for a harder route. You got what you deserved - right at your paygrade, bud.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2010 - 01:08am PT
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You're right, I onsighted the crux 12c/d pitch. I should have picked a harder route....
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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well if you onsighted it, then yes. did you check out spaceshot? Looked like a rad free line.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 9, 2010 - 01:53am PT
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I did drool over Spaceshot across the valley. Maybe next time? It's a beautiful line.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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That first real pitch looked money, a bunch of little features kinda far apart... looks like it must go just barely. And the hand cracks higher up are candy!
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Someone mentioned golf etiquette; I love that analogy. If you are just a little faster than a party ahead of you on a popular route, then of course you wait for them. If you are WAY faster than them, they should let you pass. Or heck, you can just pass them. I just don't see any other option for competent climbers to be able to climb classic (as in popular) routes. Do only slow parties get to climb them and have any fun in the process?
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blr
climber
socal
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Fat Dad's post is right on the money. Being incompetent AND inconsiderate makes one nothing more than a turd.
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Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
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Someone mentioned golf etiquette;
Nothing worse than someone letting you pass on a par 3, and f*#king the hole up, while they watch.
Prod.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Sorry, but the fact that everyone on this thread is focused on the traffic problems and dismissive of the conservation issues only underscores the ubiquity of the very characteristics listed in the thread title.
I hate to say it but if a management plan isn't implemented then we are likely to end up with an outright ban. I wonder how many climbers have the wisdom and restraint to, despite being part of a freedom loving culture, embrace the mindset that would be needed to preserve climbing in Zion for centuries to come.
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Euroford
Trad climber
Louisville, CO
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this fall my gal and i plan to climb monnlight, we plan to spend the night on it as well. i hope somebody starts a thread about us gumbing it up.
if you run up on our bivy early in the morning, we'll plan to have breakfast/coffee ready and feel free to pass.
i'm sorry but zion = vacation.
take it easy. if ya wanna get all gnar gnar about the gumbies go climb someplace a little more non n00b friendly.
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mpandy
Trad climber
Jackson Hole, WY
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My wife and I aided MB this fall for our 10th wedding anniversary and first wall. It was an absolutely sublime experience, and the night on the ledge was bliss.
I hope it never goes out of style to aid MB. It is a masterpiece of sandstone, and it would be a pity if only the elite could experience it. There was a party free climbing it above us, and their leader hung his way up lots of it. Was he aiding or freeing? Does it matter?
Do your best to leave the rock (and base) the way you found it, be considerate to others, and have fun - regardless of the style of ascent.
I do agree an argument can be made against hauling and the wear on the rock. But at the same time, wall camping is a wonderful thing that people should be allowed to do.... and if hauling was made illegal in Zion, there would just be twice as many people on Washington's Column.... so I don't know what the solution is to that one.
Personally, I rarely have parties ahead of me on popular routes because I get up EARLY and am willing to climb a pitch in the dark if I have to. If you are motivated, one can have any experience they want on a route regardless of popularity..... you just need to be flexible and slightly more motivated. Of course maybe I've just evolved to this dawn patrol method 'cause I am slow! :)
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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In my day it was considered rude and inconsiderate to come roaring up below someone and expecting to pass.
In addition to that, it's unsafe.
There is a lot of rock in the world. A bunch of it is in Zion.
If you're a 5.12 leader, you should have gone elsewhere.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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I agree with you, Josh, sitting there all morning and then starting to lead just as you got closer was a real dick move.
I'm all for taking my time and enjoying the route but we all have to be considerate of our limited resources and other's wants, desires and time. They could have waited a few minutes more, you guys could have blown by and everyone would have got what they wanted.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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ron wrote It is just downright rude and inconsiderate to "learn" wall climbing on popular routes.
I'm ordinarily a champion of gumby rights and tolerance, but I have to say that, since supertopo is a learning resource for our community standards and people getting into walls, I think it is true that people approach wall climbing without putting sufficient advance training.
Wall climbing and aid climbing are not the same as free climbing. They take separate skills that need honing in advance. The idea, even if possible, that you can jump on a popular climb, flail and bail due to inadequate training, impacting the vacation time of numerous other parties, is selfish and all too common.
You don't learn to offwidth by leading Twilight Zone and you shouldn't start up the Nose with leading only two aid pitches under your belt.
Getting there first, particularly if unskilled, is no excuse for congesting a popular route with no consideration for long the route is toast for others. Sure, maybe sit on your ledge all day if you must but let others go by fast if that's your strategy.
We share this adventure and share the resource. It would be fun to go do Zodiac one pitch a day and party and enjoy the view but we must consider that other's have their dreams as well
It would probably have been a more balanced discussion if the Op hadn't placed harsh judgements in the subject title. We need to allow for lesser skilled parties to enjoy the trade route, but unprepared flailers often wreck the experience of lesser skilled parties as well.
Peace
Karl
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Well put, Karl.
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ExtraBlue
Ice climber
the ford VT
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It was Moonlight at Zion. Those guys were probably on their first Aid climb and loving the experience. And I respect them for it. You can't honestly go to climb a route like that and not expect to find people on it in front of you. Yes, they should of let you pass, but they probably didn't even consider that they would be blocking you.
If you onsight 12, then I believe there are many many other routes available to you in Zion. For the guys on the wall they probably didn't have that choice.
And lastly, if you didn't talk to those guys then cut them some slack. Who knows it could have been a couple amputees, or a blind climber, or just some people trying to get to your level of the sport.
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JacksColdSweat
climber
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to the OP.
perhaps when you choose to knock off a classic is important.
i had the entire canyon all to myself. not a single climber anywhere on any route in late Feb. of this year. took my time. and bootied two c4's too. it was a great weekend. 65 degrees during the day. 35 at night.
that 4th pitch is stellar.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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"You're right, I onsighted the crux 12c/d pitch. I should have picked a harder route.... "
Reads to me like you went to Yosemite and rode the Green Dragon around all day and now you're bitching about it like some kind of tough guy. Give me a break.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Well, they've both been freesoloed.
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