Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
After 23 hours in labor and watching the baby's heart monitor slow
OhYea! Well my baby took 33 hrs. And the baby's heart slowing isn't necessarily a bad thing, they can be jus taking a rest waiting for the next onslaught
|
|
jonnyrig
climber
|
|
Man, thats awhile. Quite the experience too. Very few things go as planned some times, but the kids worth it.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
The individuals who own Hobby Lobby as a closely held corporation . Go and find their names in the SCOTUS ruling .
Are you suggesting the owners of this business lack legal standing in this case?
The decision states:
It held that the Greens’ businesses are “persons” under RFRA,
http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/13pdf/13-354_olp1.pdf
I am suggesting that the entity that had the standing, and gained the advantage, was the CORPORATION, not the people. The entity whose religious values were found to be inferior were actual people.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Thus, the effect of the SCOTUS decision yesterday costs any Hobby Lobby employee who seeks the particular birth control not offered through the employer perhaps 30% more than the list price, because of the tax disadvantage. It's still largely a small amount, but sometimes precision matters.
Ah, the financial argument. So what you are saying, John, is that a law that required everyone with your last name to pay, say, $30 to vote----you would support that, because it isn't much money?
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
Disallowing a government benefit?
THE MORNING AFTER PILL??????????????????????????
No, Payment for it. Which all other women in America have access to, except the employees of the winners of this lawsuit.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
I'm still waiting for Dr. F to apologize for propagating the myth that this decision applied to Walmart. No one who read the decision (as opposed to reading liberal propaganda) would say that (at least if they understood what they read).
All over the media today: "Closely held corporation" is actually in the majority decision several times, of which WalMart is unquestionably one.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
I'm not keeping up with this fast moving thread.
reproductive rights, what they are and who gets to control them, is an issue that is much older than human culture.
sexual dimorphism often is the means of resolving the issues of control ("might makes right")
there are very different perceptions, male and female, regarding responsibilities having to do with sex and reproduction
men seem to be "free to roam" and "sew their wild oats" under the guise of "boys will be boys"
women are expected to "protect their virginity" while waiting for "prince charming" or suffer the judgement that they are "sluts" who deserve no respect
that is a male view of the issue, and one that seems to resonate with the court
an abortion makes a lot of societal sense, the production of unwanted children places a very large burden on society. most pregnancies end in abortion, naturally, only a tiny fraction of abortions are medical. abortion is the most likely outcome of conception. and even though this is natural, women still are perceived as being responsible.
it is not surprising that women get the majority of the "blame" for medical abortions
why is that? last time I looked it still took "two to tango", where is the male responsibility?
it is pretty much absent and the women are stuck with all the judgmental bullsh#t
in fact an other criminal persecution of women, prostitution, seems to avoid of the fact men are customers, but men are unlikely to be persecuted, it might not even be illegal. why is that?
so it comes as no surprise that the SCOTUS majority had no female justices concurring, and that the majority thought it a good idea to validate religious objections to the exercise of individual liberties, in this case, the liberty a woman exercises in choosing to control reproduction. this liberty is not abstract to a woman, it is to a man, and our behavior as a society recognizes men's abstract notions of reproductive rights trumping women's practical involvement in reproduction.
I think it is impossible to view this decision in any other way, it allows a company that enjoys protections and rights under federal law to discriminate against a class of citizens (women) based on religious belief.
It finds that the protection of the liberty to practice religion is more fundamental than the protection of reproductive liberty. It could only find so because one class is dominated by men and the other exclusively by women.
It would be nice to think we could be moving into the 21st century rather than holding fast to unexamined cultural practices that are more than two thousand years old.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
It's uncomprehensible that a Supreme Court decides that
1) women's health care can be excepted on a religious basis
2) an entity as a company can hold religious beliefs
3) that religion is allowed to interfere with legislature
4) that only women's health care are given disadvantages
5) that only ONE religion is taken into consideration, if taking religiously based legal decisions
How long before you have christian sharia laws?
Lolli, we've had them for a VERY long time. The problem is weaning people off them.
it's because they KNOW the will of God.
They KNOW that women cant make decisions, and shouldn't vote.
They KNOW that blacks and whites should not mix.
They KNOW that blacks should keep their place.
They KNOW that gays made that choice.
but we are slowly changing the landscape. It is GOD's work. :)
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
why should a devout Catholic, who believes that supporting contraception and elective abortion may place his soul in danger of eternal damnation, be forced to offer an insurance policy to his employees that offers contraception and elective abortion?
Because by incorporating, they derive many special protections from the US Gov't: they cannot be personally sued, they have a different tax rate, etc.
They agree to abide by the laws of the US and the State that apply to the business that they are in, including laws that involve insurance of employees.
If they are not willing to do that, to be law abiding, they should find another occupation.
why does an employee not work somewhere else that provides such benefits, if they prefer health benefits that provide contraception services and possible elective abortions??
here's one for you: If a female employee is raped on the job, and gets pregnant, that would be a worker's comp injury. Should the work comp pay for an abortion, if that is her choice? Should an employer such as you describe be able to pick and choose what work comp covers?
|
|
clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
|
Evil corporations. Religion and the gov'mnt mixing it up again.
We could have birth control bubble gum and abortion popsicles, but THEY hide the truth from us. Who has rights?
Money does. Almost full access.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
just let the Feds give out all the vouchers they want for free, safe abortions and for free birth control pills, it's no big deal
so what is the big deal you seem to imply?
|
|
Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2014 - 12:19am PT
|
I'm sure the OP can think of lots of idiotic things to say about Sweden
please oblige us
You find this idiotic too? Why, by your posts I believed you thought it a good decision. Good for you.
Oh yeah, there's plenty of things one can say about Sweden which could be handled better. Plenty. But that's rarely of any great interest on an almost all American site. You couldn't care less as it doesn't affect your lives. A few would find it interesting and write a few posts, but then the thread slides into American matters again. Understandable, that's what matters to most people here. Believe me, been there, done that. :-)
|
|
BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
|
It would be nice to think we could be moving into the 21st century rather than holding fast to unexamined cultural practices that are more than two thousand years old.
Thats just it, these practices have been tried and tested and proven to be true for 2000 yrs! How long has this pill,when digested kills a human being and who knows what else to the mother down the road, how long has it been around?
Maybe little girls should be taught how special it is to to give birth to a human being. They might not take sex so for granted. My daughter has had seperated parents since after birth, and i still think its way more marvelous than finding and naming a star. i don't know why a girl would want to have a baby these days anyway, with people telling them their a piece of crap and they couldn't raise anything that wasn't a BURDEN on society. is that how you feel about the worlds poverty stricken, that their not contributing to society and their wasting precious resources?
ED it; not meaning any disrespect to you personally, just ur opinion.
|
|
Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2014 - 03:38am PT
|
BB,
Oh dear. No sex before marriage? What a sad life. Sex's so good, didn't ya know? And we, humankind, are wired into doing it.
The younger the stronger force, too. Better teach 'em how to not get into trouble. How to use protecion. And respect for each other.
It's a basic need. And it makes life so much happier.
And if you think romantic disappears because of feminism, well... It depends on you, man. YOU. Both of you. Don't blame anyone else. Use your fantasy. Because I really don't believe you're wanting to say that only if your partner is held down, you can be a romantic. One can do all those small things to show love and happy surprises and everything with an equal partner too, you know. And the sex is far better. :-)
Edit: A wanted child is one of the great joys of life. Here lies maybe the difference in our opinion. I think a child born has the right to be wanted. If a child is to be born or not is not the decision of some other people anywhere. The only people who matters in this issue is the mother and father. The child has a right to be welcome into the world.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Jul 2, 2014 - 07:35am PT
|
Sullly,
;-)
|
|
jonnyrig
climber
|
|
I,ve had the joy of watching two births now, both c-section and both very different. My own opinion, and what my kids will learn from me, is that they should not be having sex as teenagers, but also how to protect themselves if they do.
If your religion tells you otherwise, good for you. Thats your morality, and you can pray about what to do with your pregnant teen if it happens. I simply prefer to make my own choices, thank you.
Now where we have a problem is when we try and restrict each other,s choices and actions based on our own moral opinions. Hobby Lobby is restricting the choices of their employees based on their religious beliefs. How is that different than restricting what a woman can wear in some muslim faith? Cause most of you good moral christian types would be all over that.
|
|
John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
|
|
equal opportunity
http://dailycurrant.com/2014/07/01/hobby-lobby-stones-gay-employee-to-death/
Managers at a Hobby Lobby store in Arkansas stoned to death an employee today for being gay.
According to a report in the Ozark Post-Gazette, the store’s management decided to execute Jeremy Gleason, 43, in an alley behind the store in accordance with the Biblical verse Leviticus 20:13, which commands believers to kill homosexual men.
The assailants reportedly tied Gleason to a pole and threw large chunks of granite and whole bricks at his body. An autopsy later revealed the adoptive father of 2 young children died of blunt force trauma to the head.
|
|
Happiegrrrl2
Trad climber
|
|
Maybe little girls should be taught how special it is to to give birth to a human being. They might not take sex so for granted
*Maybe* little BOYS should be taught how special it is to to give birth to a human being. They might not take sex so for granted.
Most girls DO NOT take sex for granted, and they FULLY understand how special it is to give birth to another human being. Even ME, who has never had a pregnancy, understands that.
*Maybe* little boys should be taught to respect the concerns of a young woman when she says "I'm worried about pregnancy," and take responsibility for the joint venture they are about to embark upon, instead of pressuring them to go forward unprotected.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Most girls DO NOT take sex for granted
Many teenage boys would sadly agree with that statement.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!