Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
WBraun
climber
|
|
you can plagiarize me all you want
I never plagiarized any of your sh!t.
I never even read anything on the this page by you nor the previous, you goofball minion mental speculating midget.
I simple clicked "post a reply" to this thread and wrote.
I didn't even know you were running your mouth on the previous page until I see your "you can plagiarize me all you want" crap.
Post less, talk less, introspect more and you might actually see the world as it is ....
|
|
rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
|
|
Or smoke more and quack less...
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
But convenience wins out. Fear, loathing, revenge, self righteousness and a dose of racism all stir the stew of blood lust.
Justice (1/25 on death row are innocent) be damned.
The Constitutional ban on "cruel and unusual punishment" be damned.
Mental deficiency be damned.
The Death Penalty is not a significant deterrent to murder. Chopping off their heads makes us no safer. Cruel logic be damned.
The economic cost is enormous but that argument cuts both ways. It has been argued here (facetiously I hope) to execute the next day. Yup that would save $$. To save a couple of meals we can just march them over to the gibbet in the public square. While they're on the stage we can pelt them with stones for good measure.
We condemn those who break the law yet we ignore basic tenants of justice and humanity.
No doubt there are unbelievably vicious and cruel murderers who should never be let out. We are little better when we hide behind "justice" to murder them.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
Werner is right
They go around in the world killing all kinds of people, slaughtering them mercilessly in the their stupid wars by the millions without winking their eyes. "millions" might be a slight overstatement
Probably only a million in Vietnam, 200K or so in Iraq. 20K more or less civilians in Afghanistan.
Hey what's a few more or less?
Our love of the Death Penalty is entirely consistent.
So let's do more of each.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
If you accept that it is being handed out as punishment. why does it need to be humane?
|
|
Flip Flop
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
Werner,
I would hope that the anti-war and anti-capital punishment crowd are the same. Conversely, the pro-war, pro-punishment mentalities prevail in other people.
Not commenting on self-awareness, social-consciousness or cognitive dissonance though as we are each feeble in many aspects.
Here's to hoping.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
If you accept that it is being handed out as punishment. why does it need to be humane? What's the opposite of humane? Cruel comes to mind.
You can imprison criminals and still treat them humanely. Do you have a problem with treating prisoners' mental or physical health problems? Should we feed them only bread and water? I'll bet it costs a bunch of $ to heat and cool our prisons. Put them back out on chain gangs so we can recoup a little of the cost. Or perhaps you think being well fed while locked behind bars is an entitlement?
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
One of the big selling points of incarcercation is rehabilitation. The main selling point of death is punishment and deterance. why then all the hand wringing about makeing it humane if that is even possible?
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
point taken
As in fact there is no "humane" way to kill a person against their will.
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
"Americans are such stupid hypocrites...
The Ugly American is still alive."
We can complain about the brutality of caning and its humiliation when Malays accept it as the price of social errance,
and then go pay lowest price fo' ho',
and then fly home, sated but still ugly and still clueless.
I'm not sayin' any of you guys...
Ever...
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2014 - 07:38pm PT
|
If you accept that it is being handed out as punishment. why does it need to be humane?
Well, in the United States, there are certain prohibitions against cruel and unusual punishment. Why that got written into the law is an interesting question, worth examining to see just what typez of abuse the prohibition was meant to address and why.
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
So killing someone is not cruel and unusual unless you do it the wrong way?
|
|
ruppell
climber
|
|
Trad
Look at it the other way. Killing someone is cruel and unusual. You can make it a hell of a lot worse if you wanna be crueler and more unusual though. Get it?
|
|
tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
|
|
Seems like the lethal injection is pretty effing nasty. should go back to something simple and cheap like fireing squad.
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
The ONLY valid "selling point" for capital punishment is retribution.
None of the other selling points hold water when scrutinized carefully.
If you believe in an eye for an eye then capital punishment can be called appropriate retribution.
|
|
ruppell
climber
|
|
High
It's "an eye for an eye".
The VALIDITY of that is yours and yours alone.
Use CAPS only when shouting or really pissed. Get it?
|
|
zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2014 - 09:31pm PT
|
ONLY valid "selling point"
Well that and the idea that it ABSOLUTELY guarantees the capitalpunishmentee will not repeat his/her indiscretion.
So killing someone is not cruel and unusual unless you do it the wrong way?
As I pointed out above, although it never happened I was OK with Chief Broom and R.P. McMurphy, so yes.
Whoops, missed one - death by mosquito, a novel take on beastiari
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/2401816/Imagine-if-mosquitos-had-guns
|
|
HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
|
|
The one exception to my previous claim.
guarantees the capitalpunishmentee will not repeat his/her indiscretion. The alternative: life without parole.
as if that's to be preferred?
Do you think Sirhan Sirhan or Charles Manson or Brevik will ever get out?
Timothy McVeigh was OK with being executed. He expected it before he blew up the Oklahoma City Federal Building.
I knew I wanted this before it happened. I knew my objective was state-assisted suicide and when it happens, it's in your face. the Death Penalty was no deterrent. Ditto for the 9/11 terrorists. Ditto for David Koresh.
Plenty of killers go into mass murder situations with the intention of being killed themselves. Often by their own hand. Harris and Klebold (Columbine); Lanza (Newtown), Cho (Virginia tech) etc etc etc.
Its the martyr thing. The publicity seeking thing. The "see what you made me do" thing. The ego thing.
|
|
ruppell
climber
|
|
Its the martyr thing. The publicity seeking thing. The "see what you made me do" thing. The ego thing.
High,
What's your point again? It got lost in all that public ego thing.
Get it?
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
The sixteenth and seventeenth century in England featured burning alive along with drawing and quartering. In 1689 the English Parliament passed a bill of rights that contained verbiage as found in our eighth amendment. That bill constrained James II as regards his treatment of Protestants. During Cromwell's time and in times on either side Protestants were burned alive in some numbers.
I am not arguing for the death penalty but am just looking at what might be possible. A major feature of punishment as we know it is that the condemned can in no way affect their fate. Like vengeance. Letting someone choose their path or use the services of their person in some way would relieve this to a degree. Another movement in that direction would come if the condemned opted to donate organs and some of the payments for them could be directed according to their wishes. If there is real regret the condemned might leave those monies as a bequest to the people that had been hurt.
Even if none were to choose this, the state's hand would not be formed so tightly into a fist.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!