Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2006 - 10:05pm PT
|
He wrote: "Sadly, what Largo and some of you others demand is a juried climb.
So it has come to the point where if someone must have a solid witness AND a camera around, or take crap forever.
I think that is biullsh!t"
It is bullsh!t, but not the way you have it phrased above, which is to shift the onus of truth on the climbing community at large, and to hold them totally responsible for the doubts raised by many.
The question really is: Why did doubts ever arise about some of MR's claims? I have no idea myself, but I suspect from the little I've read and the MANY rants I've heard from folks that in some cases there was confusion in the reporting, or some things didn't add up as they should, or versions were tendered that contradicted other things said and so forth. I think most of us take anyone at face value till the reporting starts to confuse us, then only a moron wouldn't wonder. To blame folks for wondering is to try and deflect the issue away from the confusion and onto the peanut gallery. THAT, in my mind, is bullsh!t.
It's seems improbable, but perhaps possible, that these doubts simply grew out of some wankers jealosy of MR's solos. It's an interesting notion.
My question is: why does anyone doubt MR and why? Who is confused about what, and on what grounds? Where did all this start. Did someone just make it all up or what? Answers like "That routes too hard to solo," are not answers at all. What, specifically, is there to suggests he didn't do exactly what he claimed to do?
JL
|
|
Roger Breedlove
Trad climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2006 - 11:04pm PT
|
Since I contributed to this thread in my own bullshit way, I want to second a comment John made above that was the point of my poking into this.
The short list of reasons given for not believing MR are more or less as follows:
Better climbers backed off.
No one saw him do it.
His friends won't stick up for him.
The photos could have been shopped.
He publicized his climbing.
He has off days.
Given what I know about good climbers, this list of justifications doesn’t prove anything. All of those things could be true and it doesn’t add much one way or the other. All could be false and it doesn’t add much. The application of normal expectations doesn’t apply—hard on sight soloing ain’t normal.
And the thing that set me off was the line of questioning had taken on the tone of “If she were real witch she would have survived the dunking.”
I have no idea what Michael Reardon has done or not done. And, I don’t have any reason to doubt his claims. But hard soloing, as John points, is a pretty rarified thing to do. (Dean Potter free soloed Separate Reality several times in row. None of this one shot wonder stuff for him—proving the gun is not really loaded one cylinder at a time, plus the chamber. I don’t think it would occur to anyone I know to question it.)
I haven’t read anything in this tread that seems like a reasonable test—John offer of shoes to Karl’s on-sight solo of Astroman (or to the 'blond' theory) will clear up the matter.
So I think John has hit the nail on the head: “What, specifically, is there to suggests he didn't do exactly what he claimed to do?”
Roger
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2006 - 11:24pm PT
|
" ...... hard on sight soloing ain’t normal."
That's for sure.
But for some strange reason it still draws one in.
Dive deep for the finest pearls .........
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2006 - 11:39pm PT
|
John and Roger,
If you keep cutting through the BS like that this bickering may soon lose it's dimestore sweetness.
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2006 - 11:42pm PT
|
Here is why I doubt it.
First of all I want to say I would never in my wildest dreams ever consider Bachars offer on following mike around. I would be dead if not on the first route certainly by the second. I do believe and respect most of mikes climbing.
A climbers word is his credability at least that is the way it used to be, thats how I was tought. You always just tell it like it is. I hung on the rope, I had to drill, I did it with out a rope, whatever it may be. Kind of like a code of honor. I know mike, not real well, but have had many conversations with him and we have a mutual friend. He told a bold story to me and a friend at the craggs one day. That story was brought up in previous reardon bashing thread. (It was not me who brought the story out but I did hear the story first hand, and i believe mike lurks around here and is reading all of this)I ran into mike at the climbing gym when this was going down and he let me know in a not straight forward way that he knew what was being said. Anyway he and the person who exposed the story had exchanged some heated emails and mikes story had changed drasticaly from what was told at the craggs. His credability was shot with me at this point.
For someone who wants to be noticed as a top preformer in the free climbing arena your credability better be pretty shinny to me. He really is a nice friendly guy.I don't doubt he climbs very strong but I do doubt some of his claims.
Like Kevin Daniels I oppologize for poor spelling and gramer ( I hope I got my point across) I was in metal shop.
Hi Kevin I am going to need a bunch of hangers and shuts soon. You will hear from me.
T2
|
|
G_Gnome
Social climber
Tendonitis City
|
|
|
Jul 24, 2006 - 11:43pm PT
|
Just make sure you don't forget to come up for air occasionally.
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 12:07am PT
|
Thanks Richard for stepping up to the plate with specific names, a specific climb and not being anonymous.
Equinox is 12c or d right? I'm sure someobody will say it's short or something but hey, it ain't chopped liver is it? It would hurt if you fell off it huh? and at 12c, a lot of folks might fall off it.
Sure, maybe folks should move on with their lives but but this is a climbing forum (more or less) and it's ironic that folks would complain when a climbing thread reaches 200 posts. Wanna talk about Lebanon some more? Or should we discuss the protection rack needed for Double Cross (which I have downsoloed many times, but not onsight, but I have witnesses, but don't remember their names, but, well, I did downsolo it onsight, but I'd been up it before with a rope , but... nevermind)
Peace
karl
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 12:21am PT
|
Karl,
There's a specialness, a je ne sais quaff to making complaints about the complaining.
(mobius)
|
|
Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 12:29am PT
|
After Reardon's stint at Rockclimbing.com, he said that he's learned not to get sucked into posting on the net. I thought I'd repost this segment from his "about" page on his website so some words of his explanation might be offered. Afterwards, I'm going to drop a bombshell, an image of Reardon's unhearaled free solo of the Nose!
"Ever since that first freedom without a rope, I never stopped. As time went on, I found myself becoming more comfortable as my abilities - both in quantity and quality - grew. In this process, I found myself repeatedly at the same places on the same great climbs and created various ropeless circuits in a lot of places. These routes range in style and difficulty, but provide me a sense of freedom from the confusion of day-to-day life as well as being a constant reminder of how fun climbing can be. Unfortunately, repeating these enough times has created plenty of witnesses, making my personal pursuits, public.
And that's when the proverbial sh#t hit the fan.
Suddenly, people I didn't know became critical "friends" wanting to save my life, others would hang at the base of climbs waiting for me to solo the hardest stuff around on command, and whispers in campgrounds around the world generated rumors of inhuman proportions. Now I've managed to do a couple things that turn some heads, and yes, the "stupid summer stunts" and " Mojo Club" are real, but all the actual reports are merely the beginnings to larger dreams. That being said, people will still gossip and facts will become skewed. That's what prompted this website - to let people at least know the facts. Opinions are what they are.
Everyone likes to play voyeur and critique. If you solo and talk about it, you are doing it for ego. If you never talked about it and are suddenly discovered, you are underqualified. It's a lose/lose proposition for those that are unwilling to stand up to those that scream so loudly. And that's what this is about, stepping up to those who blather on endlessly.
Part history, part spray, part humor, and part slander, this site is for those that wish to know more about what other's term "insanity", "ego-driven", and just plain "stupid". It's obviously a sport with few participants, because like big wave riding, training happens every day in hopes for those rare moments when the stars line up and genuine moments of purity occur. The only competition is yourself in this game of life. And once in a while, someone touches the imagination and sparks the dream. That's what this is, my dream. "
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 01:12am PT
|
Plus Karl et al,
I don't think we should make a part 2 to this topic.
Let 'er balloon up; a little load up time'll be a good filter.
The size attests to the interest.
This is just getting good.
Some sensible things coming down.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 01:14am PT
|
Sensible? ..... Roy?
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 01:27am PT
|
Don't blow my cover Werner,
'K?
|
|
T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 01:33am PT
|
Tarbuster, Werner may be questioning your sensibility, but I'll bet he doesn't question your credability.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 01:46am PT
|
I don't question Roys sensibilities at all. He's a sensible guy.
I just question "OUR" sensibilities about our priorities in life.
When we think this is the only life we have and there is no more beyond that, all thse problems we see here are the product.
|
|
Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 02:01am PT
|
Row, row, row yer boat,
Gently down the stream,
Merrily merrily merrily,
Life is but a dream.
|
|
Sparky
Trad climber
vagabon movin on
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 03:53am PT
|
Pud nailed it: "Whatever the case, I think MR should run for office, 'cause he sure gets the press."..... and there's no such thing as bad press. I'm sure Acopa n CO would agree.
|
|
westhegimp
Social climber
granada hills
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 11:21pm PT
|
Levy,
I thought you and Mike were friends, from the way your always smiling, happy and buddybuddy to his face. If you think hes a liar then maybe your not who you appear to be.
Wes
|
|
dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
|
|
|
Jul 25, 2006 - 11:32pm PT
|
It is bullsh!t, but not the way you have it phrased above, which is to shift the onus of truth on the climbing community at large, and to hold them totally responsible for the doubts raised by many.""
Nope, that's not what I said.
I said that it sucks that apparently you now need a camera and a witness or some intenet wanks will crap all over what you might have done. FUthermore, hte idea that somone should free solo on demand liek a trained monkey to satisfy a bunch of malcontents just gripes me.
and in another sentence, it seems you are now saying that if something is not questioned one may believe it but when it is questioned one must doubt, or else one becomes a moron? Hmmmm, nah, I don't think so.
HAHA, I agree with the guy who wrote this about it: And the thing that set me off was the line of questioning had taken on the tone of “If she were real witch she would have survived the dunking.”
|
|
Sheik aka JD
Trad climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Jul 26, 2006 - 12:51am PT
|
Regarding T2's reference...I was there with T2 and two other respected climbing community members when this incident occurred. I agree with T2's observations and statements.
I have waited some time to mention this specific point. I waited because there is enough shite going around in this world. And I don't really care what the guy in the subject line does or does not do; EXCEPT for the fact that he negatively slandered/affected my close friend who brought the aforementioned historical point to light (see T2's statement above).
MR is an exceptional climber. But that is no reason to spray big, then retract the statement, then deny it, then freak out on my friend.
|
|
brett kassell
Trad climber
san jose, ca
|
|
|
Jul 26, 2006 - 03:08am PT
|
$2K in the kitty....wire it first if you want. you have about 5 months. i am sure sponsors would love it which could mean more $$$$.
when jb offered $10k to follow him for a day, croft said he never even considered it. croft sololed astroman with no repeats for years....now one other. who will own the third proud fsa?
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!