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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Ever been to Missouri? Or SoIll? Western Kentucky? The surprising thing isn't that it would be burned down, it's that they'd keep rebuilding it. Hell, in SoIll they ran a reverse underground railroad that sent freed slaves back down south returning them to slavery.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Was driving back to Yosemite today and heard a fair number of interview with Sikhs on the radio. They're coming off really well. Pretty awesome folks
PEace
karl
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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fear argued Take a deep breath. Step back and ask youself does "Gun violence" distinction make any sense to you? Does it matter? Do you really think that same "violence" wouldn't exist even if firearms didn't exist?
It's almost as if some people REALLY believe that guns are the cause or at least the great motivator for murderous rage.
Do you really think that increased safety measures on planes would have stopped the murderous rage of the 9/11 hijackers? Wouldn't they have just found some other way to kill lots of people? Isn't your argument an argument against all safety precautions and weapons control entirely? "You can't stop people from killing people so why bother controlling the power of the weapons that they can get their hands on." That is literally your argument.
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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Should we really be selling guns so freely to known Nazi losers and to crazy people being reported as unstable by their psychiatrists?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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If so then Scalia should be absolutely fine with anyone open carrying in the Supreme Court. Hell isn't that what the second amendment is all about and isn't a corrupt Supreme Court where a fed takeover might very well begin?
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Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
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What if the shooting had occurred in a Mormon Temple or Jewish Synagogue?
For that, the US would invade Iran.
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Gary
climber
"My god - it's full of stars!"
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Ever been to Missouri? Or SoIll? Western Kentucky? The surprising thing isn't that it would be burned down, it's that they'd keep rebuilding it. Hell, in SoIll they ran a reverse underground railroad that sent freed slaves back down south returning them to slavery.
Grew up in Evansville. On the way to Garden of the Gods once we toured the Old Slave House. I knew Evansville and Cairo and Western Kentucky were as Southern as Southern gets, but I hadn't know there was slavery in Illinois.
It is beautiful country though.
While I'm all in favor of gun control and lots of it, here's a contrary data point:
A fellow I worked with was from Texas. And black. He said his grandfather had a rifle or shotgun somewhere handy near each door in the house. He made it well known as well.
So the night when the hooded crackers came through the neighborhood burning and beating, his house was left untouched.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Most are pretty cool.
Some are real a-holes and some are incredible human beings.
Sikhs are like everyone else.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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isn't a corrupt Supreme Court where a fed takeover might very well begin?
You mean it hasn't begun yet? I guess that's for another thread.
Peace
Karl
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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fear argued
Take a deep breath. Step back and ask youself does "Gun violence" distinction make any sense to you? Does it matter? Do you really think that same "violence" wouldn't exist even if firearms didn't exist?
It's almost as if some people REALLY believe that guns are the cause or at least the great motivator for murderous rage.
Do you really think that increased safety measures on planes would have stopped the murderous rage of the 9/11 hijackers? Wouldn't they have just found some other way to kill lots of people? Isn't your argument an argument against all safety precautions and weapons control entirely? "You can't stop people from killing people so why bother controlling the power of the weapons that they can get their hands on." That is literally your argument.
"YOU CAN'T STOP PEOPLE FROM KILLING PEOPLE"
EXACTLY! Your 9/11 example is perfect. No fancy weapons were used, unless you want to count "box cutters". 3000+ people snuffed out in terror with not a single shot fired. It could happen again tomorrow.
I'm for "safety precautions and weapons control" in the case of training people the proper ways to use various weapons. In other words I see Gun Control as necessary to properly educate people on how to handle and use firearms so that accidental deaths are minimized. Like getting a license for a car. I see NO need to ban any type of hand-held semi-automatic firearm of any caliber. None.
Hand-held semi-automatic firearms are not magic death rays. They require a significant amout of training to really use effectively. I've used them all and still have to train on a regular basis to be any good.
There are easier and much better ways for crazy people to kill indiscriminately than to use a firearm.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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EXACTLY! Your 9/11 example is perfect. No fancy weapons were used, unless you want to count "box cutters". 3000+ people snuffed out in terror with not a single shot fired. It could happen again tomorrow.
and 911 could have been prevented if only the Bush Administration had ordered that all steel fully lockable doors be installed in all commercial airliners.
Just exactly as Israel had done years earlier.
National Security is often more about proactively anticipating than after the fact reacting
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2012 - 02:35pm PT
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"It could happen again tomorrow."
Yep, you're right.
Why try to do anything about it?
Just live your life, and wonder if maybe today's the day you wander into a shooting.
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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I was referring to the 9/11 bombing but either way... I'd probably be dead. Yep. Sure I'd do whatever I could in either situation to make a difference but there's a certain randomness to madness nobody can predict.
That's right, there is no way to prevent crazy people from doing crazy things. Scary ain't it?!!!
Thankfully it's still rare in this country despite the media convincing everyone they'll be killed by a madman tomorrow.
I remember my first flight after 9/11. Just several weeks afterwards. Scary stuff. Such is life. But we all live with a healthy dose of denial or we'd never leave the house.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2012 - 03:33pm PT
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"That's right, there is no way to prevent crazy people from doing crazy things."
True, and I don't think most rational people believe that anything can be done to reduce such incident rates to zero.
No doubt, though, that the rates could be reduced, and if that means fewer people who ever have to experience such horror, how can that be a waste of time or $?
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michaeld
Sport climber
Sacramento
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I watched a couple of movies on Netflix the other night. Both the exact same movie for the most part.
Ghetto thugs documentary style of a day in the life of a hoodlum.
Towards the end, I started to feel bad. That's the only life they knew, in the hood.
So when these mass murder people are only exposed to all this hate and anger, they snap.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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No doubt, though, that the rates could be reduced, and if that means fewer people who ever have to experience such horror, how can that be a waste of time or $?
up thread somewhere your question was answered as: "It would be an inconvenience"
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Moof said: "I own no guns, but want to keep my right to own them. I especially don't want law enforcement having guns when if I can't. Sorry, but there are plenty enough bad apples with Glocks that I don't want to give up my right to bear arms just yet.
I don't have a vagina, but want to keep the right to have an abortion on the table for those that do.
I haven't ever gone into the street with a sign to protest, but I still want my right to free speech.
So on.
Full autos are outlawed for the average Joe already. Heck places like New York won't even let you have a decent pocket knife legally. In my reading we are already on the slippery slope for many of our freedoms, so I'm sorry that I won't be joining the cry to tighten up gun laws much right now. "
Well spoken.
For myself, I trust all of you more than any politician. Why should they have the guns but not any of you? Why should they have even more control over us? They passed strict gun laws in Mexico and now gun violence is off the charts as they got them out of the honest folks hands, and the biggest criminals are the police.
ps, Dr F, thanks bra, I'm thinking of lightening up via the Riley vegan method.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 7, 2012 - 04:54pm PT
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What do you think about the most recent compilation (via healyje) for suggestions of gun control, couchmaster?
"...no auto or semi-automatics, no big clips, every weapon chipped, all gun sales / transfers screened and all weapons registered. Dedicate a billion dollars to gun buyback programs, mandatory sentencing for crimes involving a weapon, mandatory registration of all existing weapons. Clamp down hard on gun shows, institute a single gun sales clearinghouse and any gun dealer shown to be a conduit for n number of weapons used in crimes gets banned from the trade for life."
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jstan
climber
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Today it was reported Loughner may be plea bargaining out to "guilty" to avoid a possible death sentence. I think we need to have full trials in these cases. No legislation is required to make this happen. We need only make our feelings known.
Joe's suggestions look very good. Chipping the guns is a good idea but it can be defeated easily when the weapon is being stored. The chip will be effective in most other circumstances I would expect.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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WTF is a "chip" going to do?
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