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jstan
climber
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Mar 16, 2012 - 11:18am PT
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Quite simply, we lose it when we invest emotion in a discussion. It ceases to be a discussion.
For my own part had I encountered bolted climbing first I would have just walked on by. Of no interest at all. So purely artificial.
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James Wilcox
Boulder climber
The Coast
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Mar 16, 2012 - 12:20pm PT
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I was just waitin' for someone to ba called a slut. Then I would have
known we had hit rock bottom :)
FWIW-I thought Khanom expressed his views nicely. And held it together
when attacked. Kudos.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Mar 16, 2012 - 01:52pm PT
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There have been some articulate posts on both sides. There have also been others not so much so. People are certainly entitled to their views, and there may be some validity to those views that merits consideration. The question seems more where, when, and how the views are presented.
I may have unfairly seized on what I consider an extreme solution. It makes me uncomfortable when only one side is taken into account. It's not about the messenger(s) per se.
Since I'm contributing to drift, and engaging to an extent in what I'd like to see not happen in this thread, I'll leave it at that.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 16, 2012 - 04:41pm PT
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stzzzzo, at the risk of serious thread drift I would like to point you towards
the rancorous schism that troubled the Sierra Club when it pointedly refused
to address the issue of population growth.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Mar 16, 2012 - 06:25pm PT
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I'm with Dave on this.
We should let "The Black Hand" take care of these perps.
It so simple to understand. Rats who chip holds are just punk thieves.
They steal from all of us.
We need the Local NPS to do it's job. Cite and prosecute them, so we have a trial, then WE know who it is and we (climbers) will do the rest.....
EZ
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sethsquatch76
Trad climber
Joshua tree ca
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Mar 16, 2012 - 09:14pm PT
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Today I climbed at Patagonia Pile. At the base was a mixture of broken Newcastle and Heineken bottles.......We cleaned them up best we could.......
Rule #1 Dont sh#t on top of any formation
Rule #2 Pack out your TP
Rule #3 Pros drink canned beer and pack them out! Broken bottles are f*#king lame!
I am a inbred JT local. If I see you break any of the above rules EXPECT TO BE CONFRONTED, WRAPPED IN TP, SHAT UPON, AND BOTTLES BROKEN OVER YOUR HEAD!
Joshua Tree is a gem, educate others, protect it!!!!!!!!!!!
Bernadette is a mega blessing as a liaison between us and the park service.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Mar 16, 2012 - 09:31pm PT
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At the base was a mixture of broken Newcastle and Heineken bottles..
Seth, I think it is worth pointing out that it is highly unlikely that the broken bottles you found out behind HVCC were left by climbers.
Thanks for cleaning up someone's mess.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Mar 16, 2012 - 10:01pm PT
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"At the base was a mixture of broken Newcastle and Heineken bottles.."
It definitely was not real climbers. Real climbers can't afford to drink that good shit!
Thanks for cleaning it up!!!
I have to admit, I just don't get the mentality of people who think that chipping, "gluey", trashing etc are acceptable practices.
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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Mar 16, 2012 - 10:09pm PT
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@rlf- you sure have no problems drinking my Newcastle!
Seriously though if there is enough to prosecute these people maybe we should hear about it so we can take any other appropriate actions
Eric
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Mar 16, 2012 - 10:23pm PT
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Never going to happen. This is something that needs to be settled "in house".
We all make our mistakes in life. The general idea is that when we do something that is completely unacceptable, we learn from that mistake, or at least make a feeble attempt.
This clearly isn't the case here.
Prosecuting won't solve anything.
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ME Climb
climber
Behind the Orange Curtain
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Mar 16, 2012 - 10:26pm PT
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Then let's take what ever other steps need to be taken!
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gonamok
climber
dont make me come over there
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Mar 17, 2012 - 07:40pm PT
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Make a sport climbing area at JT to coddle gym trained climbers who are terrified of a "trad rack"?
What is this sport coming to? Nobody should have anything done for them, if you cant find what you like here, then go someplace else. The only thing that im concerned about regarding the gym/sport crowd is that so many have no idea how to act around cliffs and other climbers, and that ignorance puts them, others and the environment at risk.
As for the quality of their experience, they can create their own experience like everybody else. Maybe we should put in one of those MacDonalds play areas for them too.
If you need your hand held you are in the wrong sport.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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Mar 17, 2012 - 07:43pm PT
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pukie brown and heniousiken,
real climbers would have busted up some pliney bottles
or maybe a lagunitas ipa, with the sweet hops,
would anybody care for a hot buttery meatloaf or some crab cakes?
what kind of dressing?
mashed pototoes or baked potptoe?
who here can puke up a corn beef cabbage sandwich in front of an irish priest?
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blackwater23
Mountain climber
Sammamish, WA
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Mar 21, 2012 - 01:09pm PT
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Dudes and Dudette's,
I learned to trad climb in JT over a period of 10 days. Came down from Anchorage the day after Christmas 1999, camped in the park and got spanked on any number of 'easy' bolted routes but fell in love with the place. I endeavored to perservere, bought some trad gear at the local climbing shop and gave it a go. Consequently I have a very limited amount of patience for whiny sport route gym rats crying for more bolted climbs in JT. Just back away from the bolt gun and embrace your inner trad child. Seriously. Learn something new you can take to the Sierras, Cascades, Tetons and Alaska Range like I have since my early trad days in JT. Do the words, "nut up" have any significance for you?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Mar 21, 2012 - 04:34pm PT
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Hey, Sprock, Father will hear Confession at 4:20.
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Kironn Kid
Trad climber
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Mar 21, 2012 - 10:44pm PT
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What's the issue-problem? Put up your new route with clean pro, or no pro! if you aren't up to the task, come when you are, or leave it for another generation.
Russ
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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Mar 22, 2012 - 11:18am PT
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if he were that tough, he'd'a stayed in alaska.
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jstan
climber
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Mar 24, 2012 - 11:17pm PT
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As far as I could tell everyone had a great time at today's JT work party. It was very well organized and led with its major task the replanting of the old roadway north of intersection rock. I would guess there were 50-80 people working including a large group of youngsters from a climbing gym and a very substantial representation of the AAC. Way to go!
We planted about 175 of the 216 seedlings the people of the NPS had been preparing for the last two years for this precise project. So that the genetic adaptations existing among flora there might be continued, the seeds for all of the plantings had been gathered from that very area. All of them will be watered every two weeks or so for the next two years. A major commitment of time and energy.
For some of the holes we had to dig down through the old road base. But for that we would have got all 216 planted. All the artificial materials had been successfully removed however. The road contractor had done an excellent job. The kids were up to their task and pushed ahead no matter what they ran into.
A really great day of climbing.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 24, 2012 - 11:36pm PT
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For some of the holes we had to dig down through the old road base.
Good thing they had an expert - jstan - to help with that. All that work at Cathedral Beach paying off. Hopefully someone will post some photos.
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FreeCoffee
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 25, 2012 - 02:26pm PT
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Thank you for helping with the reveg project.
Bernadette
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