Sick & Grounded - not the TR I wanted for this year. OT

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spyork

Trad climber

Tunneling out of prison

Dec 13, 2011 - 04:56pm PT

Hey Callie,

My son went thru the ablation procedure for "extra electrical tissue" in his heart. His heart rate would spike for no good reason. It was scary as hell for all involved, but he seems to be doing fine two years later. His doc said he would wear out his heart early unless we had this procedure done or put him on drugs.

Steve

stilltrying

Trad climber

washington indiana

Dec 13, 2011 - 05:03pm PT

Hang in there Crimper Girl. I have had lots of heart issues and live on a pacemaker with a defibrillator just in case, stuck in permanent a-fib and about 1/3rd of heart is dead - the good news is I can still climb and ride the heck out of my 29er mtb. bike. Like the last post said arrythmias are very scarey and hard to deal with. The issue of not being able to get your heart to go into the arrythmia for ablation is not uncommon. I had the hell ablated out of me and it did not fix things so they just totally ablated my AV Node and put the PM/Defib in. Not the best scenario but I am still ticking (no pun intended). Make sure you have a good EP (electro physiologist) with lots of experience and they will work things out even if it takes a few tries which it often does. Hard to tell exactly what arrythmia is involved just by a description but if it is A-Fib it can make you very tired feeling, anxious and scared depending on how sensitive you are to the erractic beats. Some folks are totally unaware they are in A-fib. Best wishes from Indiana.
Mike T

SCseagoat

Trad climber

Santa Cruz

Dec 13, 2011 - 06:07pm PT

I am just knashing my teeth in frustration for you. When I was on chemo last year I got "kicked" off my 4th one because my white blood counts were too low. It drove me nuts having to wait so I know a little of what you are going through. As a dear friend of mine told me during chemo:

"When you are going through hell, just keep going". But when an obstacle is thrown your way its a pisser. Really a pisser. I'm so sorry this obstacle has come up.

Rooting for you...and remembering the incredible good will and support you gave me...hoping it is all flowing back to you now.

Susan

Crimpergirl

Sport climber

Boulder, Colorado!

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2011 - 07:53pm PT

Thanks all. It's nice to be in a community where so many folks can relate and empathize.

LOVE love love the Blue Jay and Western Tanager. Just love birds and rats and all critters. (Well, not macaques but for good reason. I have scars!).

Talked to the doc this afternoon. He said there were quick bursts of Atrial Tachycardia during the test. But because they were short bursts he couldn't map and kill them. Dangit.

Three options he says:

1. Beta Blockers. I really don't want this. I've not heard one good things about them. Plus, how do they work when one's resting heart rate is about 46? Does it slow that down? I would be a zombie.

2. Live with it. So live but not really ride or climb? I don't know I like that. Or if I do, maybe black out and feel crappy and exhausted and coughing a lot?

3. Try the ablation again with no anesthesia and just a local. He said he has about a 50% rate on the second time for folks he can't induce the arrhythmia.

Part of me wants to just start taking potassium and magnesium supplements and see if I can live with it. I've never tested low on these, but this time in the hospital I was low.

Other than that, I'm not in a good place to make any decision. As you can imagine, I can't get excited about two more days in the hospital.

I have a lot of sore muscles from it. I wonder if I fought it or something. Sore front of neck muscles. Sore right butt cheek (???). Sore heart. Bizarre.

Slept most of the afternoon. Several vivid nightmares. I wonder if some of those drugs are still wearing off.Icky dreams.

Here, I'll add a photo of my handsome Henri bird. He's 32 and I've had him since he was a baby. How can anyone not smile at this silly boy?

SteveW

Trad climber

The state of confusion

Dec 13, 2011 - 09:59pm PT

Callie
My heart goes out to you. I wouldn't know what to say. . .
but I hope there's something that works for you.
And thanks for the great pic of my bud Henri!!!!
:-)

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Dec 13, 2011 - 10:27pm PT

Hey C!
I got through my little "procedure" and I'm bummed yours didn't turn into the fix it was supposed to be.
We'll keep up the crossed fingers and good vibes that you'll figger it out soon and be back in the groove!!!

Hope this will make you smile... Riley when he was only about 5 weeks old.

He still lays on me like that.

Crimpergirl

Sport climber

Boulder, Colorado!

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 13, 2011 - 10:29pm PT

I thought of you yesterday Steelmonkey. Glad everything came out okay. :)

Riley is a sweetie. Look how adorable he is there! Pets are the best. Any baby Ginnie photos?

Rolfr

Social climber

North Vancouver BC

Dec 13, 2011 - 11:41pm PT

Stay positive, there is a whole community of us arrhythmia folks
here too support you. In retrospect the first six months after I was diagnosed , i was depressed and later found out this is a very common occurrence. You will find a way to enjoy the important things in your life, the number one thing is to stay positive. Lean on your friends, that is what they are for.

I am not a qualified medical practitioner, but do your own research before accepting a pharmaceutical solution . I was prescribed statins, which had serious side effects for me and the only benefit was to the bottom line of the heart specialist. Now I find Niacin is just as effective. ( No I am not a new age tree hugging hippie, but just an adult who doesn’t accept generic solutions and wants to make informed decisions)

This site helped me a lot, it is a forum for cardiac pacemaker and implantable cardioverter defibrillator (ICD) recipients,and folks struggling with heart conditions, there are even a few climbers on the site.
http://www.pacemakerclub.com/public/jpage/1/p/Home/content.do

I have read some medical articles that speculate A- fib may actually be a genetic mutation in older active athletes. I prefer to believe that is the case and the symptoms are just an evolutionary change. :-) ( a bit of tongue in cheek)

Truly my heart goes out to you, you are just at a crux in life not an impasse. Sending you my best wishes.

Rolf

Ken M

Mountain climber

Los Angeles, Ca

Dec 14, 2011 - 01:50am PT

Callie, sorry to hear that the procedure did not go smoothly.

I do not think there is any reason to have to make a rush decision. The supplements will not cure the problem, but a deficiency can DEFINITELY increase the tendency! With normal kidneys, there is really nothing you can do to yourself by taking those.

Beta blockers have some bad raps that they really do not deserve, derived from the first generation used in high dosage, virtually never used anymore. They had a lot of side effects, and they were titrated to FULL beta blockade, causing the significantly lower heartrate, and the blunted response to exercise. Nowadays, the specific drugs are much less side-effect prone, and for this particular arrythmia, they are usually used in a small dosage--enough that one's heartrate may not be significantly lowered at all. It's just to blunt the response of on-board adrenaline release, and works pretty well for a lot of people. Most people tolerate this well, without interference with their activities. Not pushing it, but you should know this about them.

Hope you feel better quickly.

SalNichols

Big Wall climber

Richmond, CA

Dec 14, 2011 - 01:58am PT

I take a 40mg beta blocker 1x daily for my A-Fib and it has a negligible impact on my heartrate UNLESS I am already overtired. I still ride, surf, run, swim...they're not really a big deal. My A-Fib is triggered by stimulants...specifically caffeine, so I avoid it like the plague. Between the avoidance (and I mean everything...chocolate, coffee, coke...freaking mole) and the beta blocker I haven't had an episode in about 5 years with no impact on my physical activity.

Rolfr

Social climber

North Vancouver BC

Dec 14, 2011 - 02:15am PT

An interesting article from Dec 07 2011, the university of Melbourne. "Study shows that some athletes who take part in extreme endurance exercise such as marathons, endurance triathlons, alpine cycling or ultra triathlons may incur damage to the right ventricles of their hearts."
http://newsfeedresearcher.com/data/articles_m50/heart-athletes-endurance.html
I wonder if any studies have been done including climbers?

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

Dec 14, 2011 - 05:03am PT

hey there say, callie... was just up very early, and was thinking about you...

as always, i love those parrets!

say, don't give up praying, the lady that i know, my neighbor, after a long almost 2 year wait, it was finaly solved:

but with her, she DID have a pace maker, and she DID have a doc (her first one retired, so this was a new one)... NO ONE did stuff they should have done, or listened to her... she finally got folks to press the issue, and after more test, they found that her pacemaker was broken at the connection wire, :O

she went in for the fix, and is back to walking and all the etc, and not tired or ready to faint, or any of the etc, whenever she does anything...

somewhere there is a little key, and the right door...
let's get some more light shining around :)
someone will find it... and let's hope and pray the solution will
amaze you with 'getting your life back' again, :)

until then:
ENJOY the parrots... that what they are for, and they enjoy you!!!
god blesss...

ME Climb

climber

Behind the Orange Curtain

Dec 14, 2011 - 10:35am PT

Crimper
Thinking of you and praying for the best outcome

Eric

Crimpergirl

Sport climber

Boulder, Colorado!

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2011 - 10:46am PT

Love the birds Riley! Thanks for even more excellent information everyone. Does anyone out there not have an arrhythmia? :)

It sounded so trite before this...navigating the medical system is hard. Now I know it is really really hard!

I started riding my road bike A LOT in the last couple of years. By that I mean getting out for 6 hours or so in the mountains and going and going and going. Sometimes for several days in a row (e.g., Bike Tour of Colorado which I'd love to do again this year). I met a ton of bikers who had arrhythmia issues too. I've wondered if there is a strong relationship between the two.

I love riding and hate that I've not been able to do it. And riding for a 20 minute clip isn't so fun. I'm a climber (on the bike) and there is little climbing that can be done in 20 minutes (well, NCAR which is up the street is fun, but one can't live on NCAR alone).

edit: and Riley, I don't know much about the cath lab. I was fully awake when I walked into it and got on the table. Lots of screens, computers...about five folks working in there. The EP told me he gave me propronyl (sp? The now known as Michael Jackson drug) because it is the least likely to suppress the arrhythmia) and that's it. Trying to induce it, he said he used "Isoprenol, atropine, tons of medicines..." and other than the short bursts of atrial tachycardia, nothing showed. (He did say atrial fib showed but that is pretty common in these tests). Don't know if that answers your question about the cath lab here. Here is a website to it: http://www.bch.org/cardiac-care/arrhythmia-electrophysiology.aspx. You can see my EP - Sameer Oza on this page too. Maybe that offers some info to you Riley.

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Dec 14, 2011 - 11:35am PT

propofol is the drug.

Just had a nice dose on Monday. That stuff is kinda okay.

Peter Haan

Trad climber

San Francisco, CA

Dec 14, 2011 - 12:01pm PT

I am sure there are many here who are finding this thread important.

Here are two related links, good ones, on Catheter Ablation. They are from the Heart Rhythm Society. Perhaps some will find these links useful. My cardiologist pointed them out.

about the first step, the study: http://www.hrsonline.org/PatientInfo/SymptomsDiagnosis/HeartTests/EPStudy/index.cfm

about the ablation:
http://www.hrsonline.org/PatientInfo/Treatments/CathAbl/index.cfm

I am headed for an ablation in February at Stanford, by the way. It appears so far that my SVT is the least bothersome, least dangerous. I have had it for my entire life, apparently and don't even really notice it when it happens save for the elevated BPM. That is, I don't even experience significant shortness of breath or other symptoms.

Crimpergirl

Sport climber

Boulder, Colorado!

Topic Author's Reply - Dec 14, 2011 - 02:50pm PT

Locker, next happy hour, we'll arm wrestle and see which of us bust a vessel first. :)

edit: Peter, it'll be no big deal. I slept throughout mine. Remember nothing after saying "Hey, there is more than oxygen in that mask" when told I was getting some oxygen. :)

Felt nothing.

One thing that sites are not totally clear on is the number of puncture. You will get four venous punctures (two on each side of the groin). Plus, if they can do that actual ablation, you'll get an arterial puncture. That can differ, but after all my reading, I expected one puncture. That isn't going to happen.

The laying flat does make for some ache. Still, I slept though most of mine so the time moved very fast.

You may want to um, groom yourself with a sharp razor (if you know what I mean)beforehand on both sides, or they will do it for you. Sort of awkward. :) Could just take it all off if you can take the post-grow-in-itch. :)

The recovery is really a piece of cake since no narcotics were used. Easiest one yet. Good luck and let us know how it goes for you Peter. I want to live vicariously through your successful ablation!