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corniss chopper
climber
breaking the speed of gravity
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Jul 22, 2011 - 04:02pm PT
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dr_climber
Trad climber
Ottawa, ON
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Jul 22, 2011 - 04:16pm PT
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This isn't really Darwinian, since the couple apparently already reproduced. So call them stupid if you want, but there's no natural selection at work here because they have kids. Their genes will likely propagate, and the fact that they got killed doing something stupid doesn't matter because they survived long enough.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 22, 2011 - 04:27pm PT
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Werner wrote
It's not a thread about Bachar decking.
It's about being totally stupid.
Go up there Karl and really look at what happened and how many people warned them NOT to try to go where they wanted all while disregarding the dangers.
We do stupid things in our lives at times.
Some of you just can't seem to swallow the word stupid ......
Were they wading in the water or just standing outside the rail to dip their hands or get the rail out of the picture. Is it "incredibly stupid" or just undestimating the polish.
Didn't Mike Reardon get washed away by a rogue wave? Was he in a safer place that these guys.
Have some respect dudes, You think you're taking calculated risks but as somebody who just broke his damn arm and had the rope cut 2/3rds of the way though in a situation where I really can't think of anything any of you could have done to do it differently and still climb the trade route, I think we do dangerous stuff and if any of us gets chopped, the world at large would be equally valid in calling us stupid.
and we do it all the time, not just ignorantly of vacation.
Peace
Karl
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jstan
climber
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Jul 22, 2011 - 05:15pm PT
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I post this not as an advocacy but just for logical completeness.
"This isn't really Darwinian, since the couple apparently already reproduced. So call them stupid if you want, but there's no natural selection at work here because they have kids. Their genes will likely propagate, and the fact that they got killed doing something stupid doesn't matter because they survived long enough."
Many millennia ago when a child's parents died before the child became self sufficient, the child's future fell very much into question. Long long ago, natural selection may have played a larger role than it now does.
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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Jul 22, 2011 - 05:19pm PT
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Have some respect dudes, You think you're taking calculated risks but as somebody who just broke his damn arm and had the rope cut 2/3rds of the way though in a situation where I really can't think of anything any of you could have done to do it differently and still climb the trade route, I think we do dangerous stuff and if any of us gets chopped, the world at large would be equally valid in calling us stupid.
and we do it all the time, not just ignorantly of vacation.
word.
but it makes some jackasses feel better on the internet to show that they are smarter than the deceased....pretty effin twisted.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 22, 2011 - 05:46pm PT
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I'm gonna repeat what wes said earlier...
ya'll need to actually read Darwin before you start in on your theories. and maybe do a little homework on how the risk-taking, daredevil trait may have actually helped certain bands of humans survive in the long run (which is why it exists and thus, was selected for), and how babies were raised by a large extended family, or tribe.
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squishy
Mountain climber
sacramento
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Jul 22, 2011 - 06:40pm PT
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awesome post love
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Captain...or Skully
climber
or some such
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Jul 22, 2011 - 06:40pm PT
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I've been over the railing at Vernal Falls.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 22, 2011 - 06:47pm PT
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Lovesgasoline wrote:
There's always the dichotomy between political correctness and direct talk.
(Stupid defines as lack of intelligence or common sense).
It's hard to make a case that common sense was in play here despite how one feels about the tragic consequences of the deaths. In the bigger picture, it's important to identify the reason(s) for the deaths. As has been said repeatedly, there's several warning signs, everyone is on the safe side of the railing looking on in awe and wonder, and further people yelled at them to cease and desist. Furthermore, the victims had to be in awe of the swift moving current as they waded out ... it's improbable to be wading in water with that sort of flow and velocity without some alarms sounding in the head and especially with the precipice in sight close by.
I think of the numerous people clustered on the safe side of the railing. It reminds me the analogous situation of visiting a zoo and looking at the lions...from behind the fence. Any adult parent that decides to disregard the warnings, disregard the fence, disregard the urgent shouts from other spectators, and insists on climbing into the lion's cage despite all those forces of opposition simply lacks common sense. There's no other explanation. It's a deficiency of common sense no matter how you slice it. It fits the dictionary definition of stupid. It's an accurate assessment.
Authorities may use a euphemism for the word 'stupid' in their official statements, but it all boils down to the same thing.
Word!!!!!!!!!!!1111
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 22, 2011 - 06:48pm PT
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Cosmic, that's classic.
Latest newz today:
Yosemite spokesman Scott Gediman says the site's railing and single sign are adequate and it's the visitor's responsibility to exercise judgment and caution when near any cliff. I agree, good for them to say it. There is nothing anyone can do short of closing the entire valley to human beings if you want to stop the next accident from occurring.
Meanwhile, friends described the three hikers as church role models who normally did not take risks. Sounds like the Good Lord called them home. It happens all the time that good people die. Cancer, car accidents. No less sad of course. People die while others live. It happens.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 22, 2011 - 06:59pm PT
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Sounds like the Good Lord called them home.
Wow, I was thinking the exact same thing!
It's the only explanation for their actions that makes any hint of sense.
Even in late Fall the area near the edge of Vernal Falls looks intimidating....
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 22, 2011 - 07:41pm PT
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38 years ago I went to the concert at Watkin's Glen. More than a half million people.
One of them had an interesting "look at me" gate crashing strategy. He decided to skydive in and announce his entrance with a stick of dynamite.
He flew over.
Lit the stick.
Jumped.
Threw the stick.
The dynamite fell at the same speed as him.
When it detonated the concussion knocked him out.
Hundreds of thousands of people looked up to see a body plummet to earth.
I like that line about perhaps only serving as an example to others.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 22, 2011 - 10:45pm PT
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This thread is becoming more and more stupid ......
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The Wedge
Boulder climber
Santa Rosa & Bishop, CA
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Jul 23, 2011 - 12:10am PT
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Werner, I know the media never gets anything right. Im am studying to be a nurse (just findished my first 2 weeks of 14 months....) and you would never find me in that water tring to help someone!
Suck to hear about thing like that, but does not suprise me either.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 23, 2011 - 01:28am PT
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The Smitty referred to in Summer Jam was completely normal. I myself am from Syracuse. Everyone in Syracuse plays with dynamite starting at a very young age. You all heard my dynamiting story about the time I got drenched in cow sh#t when I was eight or so.
If you don't start young enough you can run into surprises.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jul 23, 2011 - 03:22am PT
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Like you won't even if you don't???
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cliffhanger
Trad climber
California
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Jul 23, 2011 - 05:38am PT
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In most river situations with similar flow and gradient, one would be dealing with lots of stones in the river bed. Even if one's foot slipped several feet it would soon find good purchase in the gaps between stones. Not so with Vernal Falls. There is only one continuous monolithic block, no gaps, just one continuous slick ride for 100s of feet. Someone familiar with most river situations could misjudge this one terribly.
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Betelnut
Mountain climber
So. California
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Jul 23, 2011 - 10:29am PT
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Tom Woods nailed it. People just don't realize how slippery granite is and how cold and fast water runs. I don't see the need to call these kids names or use it as an opportunity to criticize our legal system. People make terrible mistakes sometimes and, luckily, we usually get a chance to learn from them. Sad, but these kids won't get the chance.
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