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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Aug 29, 2010 - 06:09pm PT
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Yeah, I don't think he was tased for jumping, but I do suspect they recognized him and because of previous difficulties had no problem taking off the white gloves when he tried to bolt and didn't hesitate to administer a little corporeal punishment, albeit cowardly by battery powered remote, when the excuse presented itself.
Most rangers do an excellent job overall, but demeanor can change substantially when dealing with certain people.
The problem mostly lies with the wannabe cops who don't have real criminals to deal with so they try to practice on those who's attitudes they don't like.
Mark my words.
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Tarz
Mountain climber
Calli
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Aug 29, 2010 - 06:14pm PT
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Hey Tom, He DID NOT resist. Its a fact. Since you get jollies and some of your income from your exploitation of the climbers on El Cap, why don't you give them some benefit of the doubt. You like a few other people on here are jumping to conclusions. Speculation is nothing but speculation. Wait for th facts to come out to voice opinions of Ammon and the situation. Have a nice day!
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Aug 29, 2010 - 06:31pm PT
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Tarz - where's your proof?
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Tarz
Mountain climber
Calli
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Aug 29, 2010 - 06:42pm PT
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He gave us the details over dinner along with a witness's account. Quite interesting. We'll see how it plays out. Later....
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elcap-pics
Big Wall climber
Crestline CA
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Aug 29, 2010 - 07:25pm PT
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Well I have certainly pointed out that I have none of the facts and am just speculating. I just hope that some of the "witnesses" are not the ones who thought it ok to lie in court in the Chongo case, as that was in a big way responsible for the lack of trust/respect the law in yosemite has for climbers/basers. That's one reason I don't give anyone the benefit of the doubt but SPECULATE on what seems to me to be the most reasonable explanation.
Listen ... all the posts on this thread are speculation... that's what we all do most of the time here. Of that I am well aware but that is what is propelling this story at the moment. So we ALL get to speculate!!
I think the best thing at this point for Ammon is to make a deal with the prosecutor and be done with it. But, if what you say is true, and I am not convinced of it yet, then he does have legal grounds for a suit that could be quite a benefit to him in the long run... whatever happens will all play out soon and no one wishes Ammon more luck than I do. And I know if he is at fault then he will man up and admitt it.... if not at fault then it will be decided in the court.
As for my "exploitation of climbers"... funniest thing I've read all day! Funny thing is that my exploitation of climbers has cost ME thousands of dollars over the years.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Aug 29, 2010 - 07:29pm PT
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I can’t resist, I have to post
Two things….
Firstly, I cannot believe I took time to read all of this thread, and then to respond to it. Especially with my new task as a full-time care giver to my fiancée. Three days into the job and I realize I have my work cut out for me.
At least I can be on the granite in Dalkey Quarry within five-minutes walk of the front door. Or the fitness centre at Fitzpatrick’s Castle, about the same distance.
But I found this thread ‘compelling’.
Having very, very little facts, and not know any of the people involved I cannot come to any ‘judgment’ or opinion as such.
In most probability, on one incident in YOS (see below) that I experienced, the ranger may have over-reacted.
Until the facts (rather turn out to be true or not, heh heh, depending on one’s point of view or the other’s – perhaps those that can manipulate records and files) are made public, or common knowledge – as such – then most of us can only speculate as to what happened.
Did he resist? Did he just turn and run when confronted? Was there a threat of violence from the ‘perp’? Was…? What…? How…? etc, ad nauseam.
Time will (perhaps) tell.
Now 1976… (I have told this story on the forum before, but perhaps this is the most appropriate place for it).
Quickly here, I’ll try to be short (at 5’6” some people may say I am, to Lilliputians, not) as possible
I was staying in C4 but I drove over to the Curry car park to take a shower in C employees showers. I was still high from a ‘trip’ that a certain David and I did that day.
As I was going back to the car a Curry security bloke and a LEO ranger stopped me. The LEO marched me back to my car to get my ID (Cali Driver’s Licence) that was in the glove box. As I reached in, from the passenger’s side, to the glove box, he pulled his gun on me. Sh#t was I scared, still tripping a bit, and a gun pointing at me. Never happened to me before.
As it was, he told me to get out of the parking lot, so I drove over to C4 and found a spot.
There is an aftermath/”follow-on” to this story, but it is not pertinent, for the most part, to this thread.
Needless to say, I probably was acting weird to the LEO (coming down from acid… no, not the ranger, me!). I could have been reaching for a weapon in the glove box, especially considering my behavior (highish) so he “plays” it safe.
If he had a Tazer would have he used it? Who knows.
Do I blame him for pulling his gun? No, not really, considering my behavior (highish), and especially as it was things turned out “okay”. Except for the following “rescue” scenario later that evening (which got David Y a dinner at the Four Seasons and me a lot of grief with the aforementioned ranger).
Now back to the thread, I do not know what happened, and until we hear both sides of the story, perhaps we will… or won’t know what happened.
And I am not taking any sides. Fence-straddling, so to speak. Though I am leaning to the climber’s side.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 29, 2010 - 07:42pm PT
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Tarz:
"Since you get jollies and some of your income from your exploitation of the climbers on El Cap..."
Wow. What a jerk.
"Later."
Don't let the door hit you in the arse!
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Aug 29, 2010 - 07:49pm PT
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Tom get "income" for exploiting climbers?
Yeah right, I bought two posters from him at the bridge for $20, which he donated to the
Yosemite Climbing Association.
Please explain EXACTLY how Tom gets personal income from exploiting climbers.
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Srbphoto
climber
Kennewick wa
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Aug 29, 2010 - 07:49pm PT
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Tarz - did anyone video it? Don't those guys usually tape everything?
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Tarz
Mountain climber
Calli
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Aug 29, 2010 - 08:04pm PT
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I spoke outa line regarding and I apologize for that, but I still think everyone should wait for the facts to come out before rendering opinions or judgement. Tom please accept my apology.
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 29, 2010 - 08:28pm PT
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fatty,
"Have you no clue about anything in the world???? Of course warnings had been given to many people for several weeks in advance of our "sweep". There was no way of knowing who had previously been there or not, so all nude sunbathers got the bus trip."
 well.. given the fact that this was not mentioned anywhere in your post.. and of course.. only now.. ah, ha... "IT IS!!"
"of course warnings had been given..."
what a crock. This is, to be sure, the re-writing of history that so many republicans like to do....
It's all in the past now anyway.. you did a great job for your boss, you can be proud of that, even if you now realize that you had no morals, thought, or choice in any matter... Be proud being a tool pays the bills right?
Why else would you need to ask "Have you no clue about anything in the world"
as if to say.. you are the clued in on everything in the world..
that's the topper-most of the popper-most of self-impressiveness, and self-importance.
you might want to edit some of that in your post so that others don't get the wrong impression as you think I have. Not that you care what anyone says or thinks... but then again.. if you couldn't care less... you may not have posted your response as you did.
fatty.. go on with yourself.
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 29, 2010 - 09:28pm PT
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Hahahaha
Almost 300 posts of pure mental speculations.
Does anyone have any control of their runaway minds?
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Aug 29, 2010 - 09:29pm PT
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hey there say, wbraun.... wow, happy good eve to you....
say hey there to anyone i know, up your way....
(chappy included, of course) .... :)
god bless, nice to hear you this eve...
:)
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Jingy
climber
Somewhere out there
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Aug 29, 2010 - 09:33pm PT
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neeb - didn't I just read that you were gone forever?
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 19, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
wt?
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jstan
climber
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Aug 29, 2010 - 10:34pm PT
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If juries responded to cases before trial the way we have been responding here, would you personally ever risk going to trial?
Here on ST this group of people has demonstrated a level of behavior far inferior to that which is needed if our nation is to survive.
It has been that bad.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Aug 29, 2010 - 10:37pm PT
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John, I think you didn't get the memo: This just in:
We (the US electorate) Are Ungovernable.
and I don't mean that facetiously.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Aug 29, 2010 - 10:37pm PT
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The people that know ain't talking. As it should be:-)
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:25am PT
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Just a thought on Basejumping.
I've heard from Rangers that BITD when it was legal for awhile, it went pretty well. Now the gear is better and the sport safer. (still, it's a dangerous sport)
I don't jump but I have to sympathize with those who do. Higher in this thread it was predicted that all kinds of evil would impact the park if jumping was legal. This is plainly not true as Hang Gliding is regulated, legal and happens all the time with little problems.
Base Jumping could be done the same way, with required experience, permits, (maybe a lottery) and even a fee so the NPS could hire a ranger or two to oversee with without busting their budget. They already jump during times when few would notice. Like the gliders fly when most folks aren't out yet.
Let's face it, most serious base jumpers want to launch off El Cap at least once. Why treat it like they are violent criminals? The only reason for the harsh treatment is that it's against the law and there's not many laws being broken in Yosemite and there's lots of guys paid to enforce laws. I drove from Tuolumne to the valley the other day and passed 4 LEO vehicles and that's normal. If it's your job to enforce laws, you do what you can to find lawbreakers (in many cases)
This is yet another case of prohibition creating unnecessary criminals. Of course they shouldn't run from the law, but hey, the punishment should also fit the crime.
Peace
Karl
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:49am PT
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I remember figuring out who "Badwater" was a while back, and I distinctly remember him carrying
on conversations agreeing with himself. Let me see if I can dig up those gems. In the meantime,
I agree that it's pretty chickenshít to blast Coz while hiding behind a pseudonym. Coward!!
Dave Buchanan
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Blakeb
Gym climber
Southern Oregon, behind her
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Aug 30, 2010 - 01:49am PT
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Agreed, hate the anonymous sh#t talking, wish everyone just posted with their real names
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