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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Aug 17, 2010 - 03:12am PT
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i know it, BLUE!!!
...guys with actual facts and information are so damn hard to deal with!
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apogee
climber
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Aug 17, 2010 - 03:12am PT
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"Keep up your 'peace'. It will destroy you and your faith."
Any guesses as to how many people have died under the sword of Christianity over the millenia, blue? Hardly 'peaceful'.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 17, 2010 - 03:22am PT
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Any guesses as to how many people have died under the sword of Christianity over the millenia, blue? Hardly 'peaceful'.
I never said we were. Only a fool lays down his sword in the face of evil.
Do you think God intended us to have peace with evil, or to make peace with man? Think before you answer. And ask yourself what evil is.
Matt, cheers. Is that daughter due??? God bless the family.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Aug 17, 2010 - 03:27am PT
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Yeah, this mosque thing is small potatoes (I know...) compared to what would happen
if the Catholics tried to build a church on Shankill Road in Proddy Belfast!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 17, 2010 - 03:50am PT
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Bluering wrote
Do you think God intended us to have peace with evil, or to make peace with man? Think before you answer. And ask yourself what evil is.
Not a Hindu by the way Bluering, but I already admitted that I'm prejudiced against fundamentalist Islam (or Fundamentalist Christianity for that matter)
But I do put stock in the teachings of Christ (not televangelists, or even st. Paul, but Jesus in the gospels)
What did he say? Resist not evil. Do good to those who would harm you. Turn the other cheek. Love your neighbor as yourself. Except the brown people and the pagans...drop cluster bombs on them.
Actually one of those teachings isn't from Jesus. How come that's the only one we seem to practice? and, ironically, if Jesus were walking the streets today, looking like he did, (except maybe a gucci suit and a shave) he might look a lot more like a Muslim than an 'merican. And let's not forget that he was killed for basically going against the status quo practice of his religion at the time.
Peace
karl
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PAUL SOUZA
Trad climber
Clovis, CA
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Aug 17, 2010 - 03:50am PT
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The funny thing is that this "mosque" isn't a mosque and isn't at ground zero.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 17, 2010 - 11:27am PT
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What liberals don't get, and it is almost entirely what created the crazy wack job right in this country, is that sometimes you do still have to fight.
And your idea of a cause to fight is that somebody wants to put a religious community center in an area where worship already takes place and where theres is already a mosque that predates the twin towers within a few blocks?
"Having to fight" has a bad habit of creating future more needs to fight. Like when the CIA deposed an elected president of Iran in the 50s to protect oil interests and then they had a revolution to get rid of the despotic puppet that we put in there to rule.
So ironic because we supported Nuclear power for Iran when the Shah was in power.
We step on somebody's dick in an unforgivable way, we forget our offense, and then think we need to fight when friction shows up later on.
Here the bottom line. Those terrorists who flew planes into buildings on 9-11 knew that damage alone wouldn't do much against the US. The plan only works if we go to war with 1 billion Muslims over it. The strongest way to defeat the terrorists is to happily embrace moderate Islam with respect and religious freedom.
and fearing Sharia law in the US is a laughable prospect, on par with thinking if gay marriage is allowed, that all the guys will go gay for easy sex and our population will shrink.
Peace
Karl
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 17, 2010 - 11:45am PT
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Hey Rad man,
I'm usually with you on so many levels...butt who's saying if a mosque or whatever is going to be built (close to butt not on) 'ground zero' is going to have us all following Sharia law...come on man that's a connections that is miles off-sheesh.
And yep, sometime you gotta fight. No question there, but knott all fighting is with a sword, know-what-I-mean?
Though, sometimes the sword makes for a pretty impressive point (pun knott necessarily intended)...
I just think people are too darn paranoid...like the big bad wolf is knocking on the f**kin door...ya right.
Those motherf--kers that caused that sh*t don't want to build, they want to destroy.
They are the enemy.
Religious intolerance is the enemy.
...and I'm not even a religious person.
I know I'll never change (no matter what I say/write/whatever) minds like Blue and some of the others here-and frankly I don't give a shite, people have the right to speak up about what they believe and what is important to them, butt I know too that once crap like this starts who knows what excuses they'll come up with next to exclude whatever or whoever.
Like I wrote before, too many Americans paid big time for a mosque/church/temple/ whatever to be placed in a community where the people of that community choose. They aren't planning on building it up yer azz...or Bluey's either.
Maybe a little understanding (okay a lot) on all sides can keep this sh*t from happening again.
Cheers,
DD
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 17, 2010 - 12:01pm PT
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Ya please go climbing...for me...
It's 9:20pm
75+% humidity
90F.degrees
pretty much sucks, though I did play 2 hours of Ultimate after work today...
felt like playing in a sauna.
Oh the joy...
Cheers,
DD
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 17, 2010 - 12:23pm PT
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I do not beleive that any moderate Muslim would want a Mosque at ground zero. Even Obama had to say he wasn't commenting on the wisdom of it.
It's still my understanding that this group has already been worshipping in the area. They are from there, not some outside group trying to make a statement. Can somebody show otherwise?
Plus, remember, there already IS another mosque pretty close to Ground Zero and has been since the 70s
Peace
karl
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Delhi Dog
climber
Good Question...
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Aug 17, 2010 - 12:32pm PT
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Mason that was pretty funny
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Aug 17, 2010 - 12:34pm PT
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What liberals don't get, and it is almost entirely what created the crazy wack job right in this country, is that sometimes you do still have to fight.
That's funny, radical. Considering all of the recent neocon leaders were draft dodgers during their war.
Here you go, Osama Bin Laden 5 years after the neocons went after him:
Tojo, 5 years after the liberal FDR went after him:
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 17, 2010 - 01:17pm PT
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After watching a part of the Jon Stewart show, Glen Beck is my new hero.
Fifty-three percent of Manhattanites side with their mayor in favoring the Cordoba Center's construction; only 31% of voters disapprove of the planned center, according to a Marist poll on 10 August 2010.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
The great white north, eh?
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Aug 17, 2010 - 01:29pm PT
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I was going to chime in with my thoughts, but remembered that I am trying not to respond to political threads.
Please feel free to carry on without me....
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Mason
Trad climber
Yay Area
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Aug 17, 2010 - 01:38pm PT
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Yes, Glen Beck definitely has earned some points in my book, even if it was by accident.
Jon Stewart is a genius.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:32pm PT
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Radical says:
But not everything is an intellectual discussion. Often on the school yard or in prison or climbing, in medicine, when meeting a predator in nature you need to do what your instincts tell you, even what your emotions tell you or you f*#king get eaten and die- end of story.
Wow, that is quite an amazing statement. I wonder if you have any idea of what that does to your credibility as a health care provider. In a profession in which it is held high, that we will always try to be non-judgmental of a patient, what are you advocating?
That is a person is judged to be non-deserving by YOU, they will get sub-standard care? If someone is cut by putting their hand through a window, and you think that they deserved it because they were drunk.....do you not sew up their arm? Or more "plausibly deniably", you do a sh*t-poor job so that they have a massive scar that causes them pain every day of their lives? It sounds like you are advocating taking on the role of "enforcer" of what you think are "God's laws", because your INFALLABLE instincts and emotions tell you what to do?
What you don't appear to understand, is that THAT is exactly how we end up along the path of anarchy, where you backslap your bitch "because she deserves it". Just ask the people with those attitudes, they are also living by their instincts and emotions. I'm sure you run into them every day.
Radical also says:
But more than that- this is school yard sh#t. I like freedom, i like the principle of America and I don't like f*#king Sharia law, treating my people like sbit and not allowing woman any rights. Yes, if you want Sharia law in 100 years, cause expansion of idea and thought is what all religion is about(ie. catholics, evangelicals, ect) then look like a pussy, a pussy to the world and allow a damn Mosque at Ground zero. Just like in the school yard you will have all kind of a-holes coming to take a piece of you...real fast...
What you are basically saying in your rant, is that you do not believe that the principles of democracy can stand up to Sharia law, that the principles of America are too weak in comparison, and you have no faith that those principles have any real power. You want to discard them for "school yard sh*t"--which boils down to, "might makes right", I guess.
But rather than think like a child, a more mature approach might be better:
"When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me."
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rectorsquid
climber
Lake Tahoe
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:46pm PT
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I just don't get it. It's not freedom of religion if you are only free to practice a religion that's on the approved list.
Dave
edit to add:
Lost of gays are beaten by Christians. Any complaints about building catholic churches?
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philo
Trad climber
Somewhere halfway over the rainbow
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:46pm PT
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You are a simpleton.
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AKDOG
Mountain climber
Anchorage, AK
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Aug 17, 2010 - 03:54pm PT
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I for one find it amazing how alot of you come on in defense of a mosque, which represents a religion completely counter productive towards american values and ideals....You like freedoms?? Freedoms have little or nothing to do with islamification. Do we want our gays beat up or hung in the streets?? Women to be second class?? Alot of the ideals you all seem to be in favor of are not welcome in the muslim world....
Word, freedom of relgion also means freedom from relgion if you don't believe.
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