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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 25, 2010 - 03:09pm PT
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The article that Patrick posted had some helpful perspectives. Although generals usually make poor politicians, outside the context of the military. Look at the series of hapless Republican general-presidents from Grant on. Also, Bush I may be the last of your presidents to have been in the military, let alone been in combat, for some time to come. It just doesn't seem likely.
Washington and Eisenhower are two of the few to have had senior military commands, and succeeded as president. Of course, many presidents haven't been competent commanders in chief, e.g. Johnson, Bush II.
Technically, McChrystal has probably been relieved of his duties. He still holds the rank he held, he's still getting paid, but he now commands only a desk and a secretary, pending further orders. Which he'll probably never get. For practical purposes, forced retirement, with pay.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 25, 2010 - 03:55pm PT
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Roosevelt was certainly warlike before he became vice-president and then president, during the imperial war against the Spanish and Latin Americans. He was not a senior officer, though, determining strategy - just a medium grade field officer. Roosevelt was notably less bellicose when in office - "speak softly and carry a big stick" - a motto that some here might do well to heed. He even won the Nobel Peace Prize.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 25, 2010 - 04:09pm PT
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The all-knowing Wikipedia says that: He was effectively running the US Department of the Navy when the Spanish American War broke out; he resigned and led a small regiment in Cuba known as the Rough Riders
Plus he led the Progressive Republicans - a sure fire oxymoron to the reactionaries who now 'lead' that party.
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jstan
climber
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Jun 25, 2010 - 04:11pm PT
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The article from the Guardian asks whether the US is moving toward a military coup. I think the first thing to realize is that the warfare inside the pentagon is fiercer than any of the wars conducted outside. Between the different branches and between commanders within the branches.
Reportedly before he left office Bush had prepared contingency plans for extra constitutional measures. If the present personnel were committed and united in support of a coup, it would have happened in 2008. My own impressions at the time were that a coup was on the table, but not on a table located in the pentagon. But those are just impressions.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 25, 2010 - 04:13pm PT
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There are ongoing rumours that the military firmly told Bush, Cheney et al, in about 2007, that any significant military action against Iran simply wasn't going to happen.
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FRUMY
Trad climber
SHERMAN OAKS,CA
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Jun 25, 2010 - 04:47pm PT
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skipt who is Patton
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 25, 2010 - 04:58pm PT
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Reportedly before he left office Bush had prepared contingency plans for extra constitutional measures. If the present personnel were committed and united in support of a coup, it would have happened in 2008. My own impressions at the time were that a coup was on the table, but not on a table located in the pentagon. But those are just impressions.
"Reportedly" Clinton was planning a coup in 2000. I wouldn't be surprised if "reportedly" Bush and Reagan were planning one in 1992 and 1988 respectively. "Reportedly" Hillary Clinton is a shape shifting lizard man from the 6th dimension. "Reportedly" the Declaration of Independence has a map on the back to a secret pile of gold worth billions of dollars.
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Barbarian
Trad climber
The great white north, eh?
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Jun 25, 2010 - 05:37pm PT
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It doesn't matter if you or I think the General's comments brought valid points to light. It doesn't matter if the General was right - or wrong for that matter. It doesn't matter what Fox News, or Rush, or Hannity, or Rachael or Keith have to say about it.
In the end, the only thing that matters is that the General opened his mouth and cast his Commander in Chief in a bad light. He has that right as a US citizen, but as a soldier exercising that right will get you tossed.
The President was right. He is the Commander in Chief of the Military and his oders and policies are not questionable by those who serve.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 25, 2010 - 05:39pm PT
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Whatever happened to all those generals who didn't like Bush's plan?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jun 25, 2010 - 05:40pm PT
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Hey, now, my grandpa (father's father) rode with Teddy in San Juan. No insults against Teddy, we are talking about Dubya and Obama here. Right? Or else meet me behind the bicycle shed after school.
This is Dubya's war that Obama "inherited". IMO, had he concentrated on Afghanistan instead of trying to make up for daddy's mistakes, perhaps things would be much better and my godson would not have had to go into Afghanistan earlier this week.
Is it that simple? Probably. Dubya f*#ked up with Iraq and a lot of people - civilians and allied troops - were killed, he just wanted to "vindicate" Daddy Bush, for no real political or military reason. Saddam was scum, but so are Bush, Cheney and company.
You Bushicos want to try and blame Obama for this mess. Dubya boy was a major cause of it, get that? I expect better from fellow Supertopians.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 25, 2010 - 06:05pm PT
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Patrick said ou Bushicos want to try and blame Obama for this mess.
Haha no. They want to blame Obama for EVERYTHING. It appears to be the defining purpose of their lives at the moment. Who needs substantive debate when we can just pretend the President was born in another country? Or is a shill for the companies that we apologize for?
(which is it by the way guys...is Obama shilling for BP since he took their money or is he abusing Presidential powers by forcing them to pay for their mess? Oh right, it's BOTH!)
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 25, 2010 - 06:29pm PT
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Fess up Fatty, you, the Evil One, were part of the coup plot. You are THE MAN.
BOOOOO!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 25, 2010 - 07:33pm PT
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Dude, Ronald Reagan couldn't make it in the current GOP.
Our problem was that the right hand sometimes didn't know what the far-right hand was doing. -R.R.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 29, 2010 - 11:35am PT
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Once again Obama proves he cares more about his fragile ego than this country. Coz, can you provide other examples of what you say is Obama protecting his fragile ego? Most would say he's overly patient and considered in his judgments, and most in the news media or public seem to think that his canning McChrystal was the right thing to do. Obama certainly doesn't seem to have a fragile ego, indeed the opposite.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jun 29, 2010 - 11:48am PT
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Coz wrote: I don't blame a stand up hero like McCrystal, for not wanting to work for him.
It's his job to follow orders and execute the war plan of the commander in chief.
The military invaded a sovereign country under Bush...they did what they were told.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 29, 2010 - 11:59am PT
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Coz, the things you refer to may relate to Obama's judgment, but don't seem to have much to do with whether he has a fragile ego or not. It appears indeed that Obama's main fault to date is not being sufficiently assertive, which is not unusual.
Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld were very quick to judge generals based on whether they would kowtow to their theories as to the invasion and secure occupation of Afghanistan and Iraq. Theories largely based in their egos, with little basis in military experience. The "surge" was in some ways a refutation of those theories, in that it finally brought troops in Iraq to a sane level.
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pc
climber
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Jun 29, 2010 - 12:19pm PT
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Good point DMT.
I wonder if the Taco would survive the Empire ;) Probably not, we'd be redirected to a page full of Empire climbing goods and ads for the official Empire climbing gym, where they only use static ropes and locking 'biners.
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