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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:00pm PT
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Never mind their party drove the U.S. and world economy into total collapse the last time they had the presidency
The depth of economic ignorance exhibited here never ceases to amaze.
Economies are like the tides: there is ebb and flow, grasshopper. The
retards in a particular office have no meaningful effect.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:01pm PT
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JE! I normally enjoy your thoughtful conservative posts, but every now & then you drop a right-wing Zinger on us.
Tonight it was this: It should surprise no one that so few Americans have been employed.
From the US Bureau of Labor Statistics Nov 6, 2015 report.
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm
THE EMPLOYMENT SITUATION -- OCTOBER 2015
Total nonfarm payroll employment increased by 271,000 in October, and the
unemployment rate was essentially unchanged at 5.0 percent, the U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today.
And CNN Money reports the unemployment rate is the lowest since 2008.
http://money.cnn.com/2015/11/06/news/economy/jobs-report-october/
It was a blockbuster month in America for jobs.
The U.S. economy added 271,000 jobs in October, far better than sluggish gains in September and any forecasts and the best monthly gain of 2015.
The unemployment rate also fell to 5%, its lowest level since 2008 and half of the 10% rate in the aftermath of the financial crisis.
JE? These employment figures look very positive to me too, but of course what do I, a one-time Rockefeller Republican, now a hated liberal; know about business, jobs, & what's good for America?
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:06pm PT
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The depth of economic ignorance exhibited here never ceases to amaze.
Economies are like the tides: there is ebb and flow, grasshopper. The
retards in a particular office have no meaningful effect.
Wow, Master Po, that was one, lousy ebb. Like the worst in 80 years. And I don't have the space here to name the economist who disagree with your assessment.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2015 - 07:11pm PT
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John posted So again, I don't see this as a system that is inherently redistributive. I see it as one that rewards certain behavior.
I'm sorry to hear about your personal hardship. You perfectly illustrate how having the means to buffer against hardship kept you out of abject poverty. Millions of Americans do not have the means to survive that kind of challenge and then are shamed for utilizing public assistance. As they say, anecdote is not the plural of data. You may not "see" the system as inherently redistributive but the data is incredibly clear that it is. It's just factually true. It's also true that the system rewards certain behavior. It also rewards certain skin colors, certain economic circumstances, certain educational and cultural backgrounds and certain genders. If doing better is just a matter of "bootstrapping harder" why has so much wealth become concentrated in the hands of so few? They just work that much harder? They get up that much earlier in the morning? It doesn't matter how many hours a day you want to work at a $7.25/hour job, you aren't going to be able to go to school if your boss insists on splitting your shifts, withholds your pay and punishes you for missing work when your kid is sick. All of this stuff happens on a regular basis. Why are you so averse to acknowledging the manner in which the working poor are exploited in this country?
John posted If you want to be a friend of this country, elect politicians who don't care about political party or theories as much as support what has empirical evidence of working.
I have to say I find this statement pretty ironic considering your eagerness to reinforce your viewpoint with anecdote instead of evidence.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:12pm PT
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Crankloon, you don't have to name the Demo-hack-who-shall-remain-nameless-
ere-he-suffers-more-derision. The person in the White House doesn't reinvent
the economic system in place every four years. When are you going to
realize that?
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:16pm PT
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You're babbling now like your sidekick, O'Reilly.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 10, 2015 - 07:18pm PT
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TGT posted Elect a champion of the oligarchy, someone like Trump, Bush, Rubio or Hillary, and you will see the downward spiral accelerate.
For once, TGT is correct, despite his use of crude and trite generalizations. The Democratic party is far more cozy with big business than it used to be, in no small part due to the decline of labor unions (which TGT would ironically disparage). That being said, Clinton has actually put forth plans to address some of the problems that still exist with the financial sector and you'll only see those other guys eager embrace a boom and bust economy.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:27pm PT
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Fiorina is earning her kook stripes tonight.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:38pm PT
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Dirt, Kasich is having a good night, imo. He's about the only one who doesn't scare me. Bush isn't hurting himself, either. He could be around in the end.
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, Moab, A sailboat, or some time zone
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:46pm PT
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Fiorina is earning her kook stripes tonight
"Let there be no mistake, let there be no mistake"
Susan
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
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Yep crankster. He has rejected quite a bit of the bullshit being espoused, such as promises to ship out 11 million people. Right wing looks don't want to hear it, but the truth is, it ain't gonna happen.
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dirtbag
climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:52pm PT
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Texans really elected a kook when they sent Cruz to the senate.
Kasich is definitely playing the competency card. What a concept!
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Norton
Social climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 07:59pm PT
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It is both naive and factually wrong to state that it does not matter which political
party has the Presidency and congress during times of economic stress
this is seen clearly when the Republicans had the Presidency, House, and Senate from
2001-2006 and the economy went into negative growth and then the worst Recession since the Great Dpression
there were two substantial reasons for this, the exploding financial derivative market and the mortgage market, both of which were ignored, not regulated, which is the
very mantra of Republicanism - that market should be free like puppies and children
and that oversight, regulation supposedly hurts business
how emphatically wrong this economic philosophy of do nothing in crises was proven
as 15 million Americans lost their jobs while the Bush Administration did.....nothing
avoidable? yes, its called being aware and willing to perform oversight and regulate
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John M
climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 08:02pm PT
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I just can't believe the GOP moderators. Can they ask a question without rolling their eyes whenever they mention Hilary Clinton.. doesn't seem like it. And it plays to the crowd. The moderators should be impartial.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Shetville , North of Los Angeles
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Nov 10, 2015 - 08:03pm PT
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Yeah , but George looked so competent and dashing landing that military plane on the aircraft carrier..
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John M
climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 08:07pm PT
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The whole thought process is just so bizarre. The moderator says HIlary has arguably more experience then anyone on the stage..then she does an Eye roll..
Meaning.. that politicians are not to be trusted, especially career politicians, except of course all those on the stage who want to be a politician.
Hi.. I want to be a career politician, but you can trust me because I'm not a career politician.
good grief.
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crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
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Nov 10, 2015 - 08:20pm PT
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It was obvious the candidates were amongst friends with the moderators. Basically, it was an opportunity for them to give stump speeches in friendly terrain.
Carson just mumbled gibberish.
Cruz gets the evangelicals when Carson tanks.
Bush did OK
Rubio gets a bump.
Kasich maybe up a point, but he's old news.
Fiorina, nope.
Trump holds on, his base is as nuts as he is.
Paul, bye. Can't talk military restraint with this crowd.
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Larry Nelson
Social climber
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Nov 10, 2015 - 08:49pm PT
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Norton, Crankster, Dirtbag, HDDJ, DR F, and other progressives I respect:
(Apologies for not calling Norton a republican)
Check this link if you want to know why people vote republican. It's from a highly respected progressive.
http://edge.org/conversation/what-makes-vote-republican
I shy from using the term liberal for democrats anymore. On some social policy issues they seem to advocate government authoritarianism, rather than classic liberal values.
Republicans tend to distrust government, which was a cornerstone of our nation's founding.
After the recent politicization of the IRS and justice departments, they have good reason.
As one example, check out the definition of economic liberalism here to see why democrats are not necessarily liberal in all aspects.
Economic liberalism is most often associated with support for free markets and private ownership of capital assets, and is usually contrasted with similar ideologies such as social liberalism and social democracy, which generally favor alternative forms of capitalism such as welfare capitalism, state capitalism, or mixed economies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_liberalism
Cheers
Edit: Don't have TV in my house so not watching any debate.
But I will say, they are not classic debate formats. Moderators get in the way anymore, and every candidate now is coached heavily on TV appearances, due to the fickle and shallow nature of our voting population.
Maybe we need IQ tests to vote?
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Nov 10, 2015 - 08:52pm PT
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"On some social policy issues they seem to advocate government authoritarianism, rather than classic liberal values."
Yeah, well, us true liberals aren't too happy about the lily-livered Dems tendency to pander with the Right just to not look 'anti-American' when the Repugs are trying to paint them that way.
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