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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Feb 21, 2015 - 06:29pm PT
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RIP Malcom X (2-21-1965) American Boy Scout
"To do the right thing at the right moment" can be extreme:
"Where a man has gone so far as to attempt suicide, a Scout should know what to do with him."
"BE PREPARED to die for your country if need be, so that when the moment arrives you may charge home with confidence, not caring whether you are going to be killed or not
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Feb 21, 2015 - 06:31pm PT
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Back in 2007, President Bush warned against leaving Iraq to soon, predicting negative consequences for doing so.
Obama ran for President, well aware of the Middle East mess that came with the job.
He did exactly what Bush warned against.
Bush's predictions have come true, in spades.
Even though Obama has been in office for seven years, many of you want to pin all the blame on Bush.
Brilliant.
I'm not defending Bush's actions. His poorly considered military policy will be one for the history books. His blunder will be most significant aspect of his presidency.
But none of that matters when we look at what Obama did (or didn't do), allowing the situation to evolve as it has.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Feb 21, 2015 - 06:32pm PT
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Ron: Nice try - that's not leadership. Occupying nations at gunpoint is called imperialism, not freedom.
By the way, if you took the trouble to think about my question regarding foreign military troops being based in the U.S., you just might have been able to figure out why people in other nations don't necessarily welcome occupying U.S. forces with open arms.
And please spare me the bit about citizens lurking behind the grass with their assault weapons in the name of "freedom" - those things get used more often by civilians in places like Sandy Hook instead of the defence of any rational concept of liberty. Join the U.S. Army or the National Guard if you're so goddamn eager to demonstrate your patriotism.
Edward T: The avalanche of atrocities that the Bush family and their co-defendants unleashed in the Mid-East simply aren't easily fixed, and throwing guns at the mess isn't necessarily a good idea. As I stated earlier, the Bush family didn't have the slightest problem with Sadaam Hussein manufacturing WMDs to use against his own people as long as he was an enemy of Iran and continued to supply the U.S. with cheap oil. Whether you like it or not, there's a lot of people in the Mid-East who have good reason to be pissed off with the U.S.
Perhaps if you guys were a little bit quicker with the foreign aid and slower with the carpet bombing, things just might have turned out differently.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Feb 21, 2015 - 06:42pm PT
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I dreamed I saw St. Augustine, alive as you or me
With a blanket underneath his arm and a coat of solid gold
Searching for the very souls whom already have been sold
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Feb 21, 2015 - 06:51pm PT
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Well obviously all those hankerchiefhead (no disrespect The), camel jockies need to be bombed back to the Stoneage. Hope no Jews get hit.
-General WasteMoreLand
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujò de la Playa
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Feb 21, 2015 - 06:55pm PT
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Well that's wonderful, Z Brown but Malcolm X was no sentimentalist.
You knew him?
How about Dick Cheney and Robert McNamara?
What in fact is the latest body count in Irag?
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Feb 21, 2015 - 07:15pm PT
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Chief: Yeah - you got me. We're the guys who almost single-handedly destroyed the Mid-East and started this whole nightmare, and our leaders made a fortune from our war crime.
By the way, the story we are told is that Canadian troops aren't supposed to be in the front lines in the first place, the number you have quoted is for ALL military personnel, the majority of whom are support troops for our air contingent, and we are told that the rules of engagement for our few special forces are to only fire back when attacked. Also, reasonable Canadians (the majority) have no problem agreeing that our Prime Minister is a complete arsehole.
Ron: What on earth makes you think that my comments about your inability to comprehend that citizens of other nations have the same rights to resent foreign troops occupying THEIR nation is any different than your bombastic attempt to insinuate that the U.S. is the only nation on the planet with a right to patriotism?
No, I haven't killed anyone and certainly don't intend to start now. I might change my mind, however, if my nation was attacked by a foreign power.
You need to develop a thicker skin, Ron - or at least think first before you flip out.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 21, 2015 - 07:21pm PT
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Stewart -- "Ron - or at least think first before you flip out."
SuperTopo forum is NOT a thinking forum.
It's a posting forum.
We have free will to not think and only post.
When our American criminal leaders start thinking then we will stop posting and start thinking ....
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rbord
Boulder climber
atlanta
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Feb 21, 2015 - 08:32pm PT
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This site full of clueless asshats. Biggest shitshow on the Internet this.
Ah, a noble man of God, a lion among sheep. Sleep well.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Feb 21, 2015 - 08:33pm PT
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Ron: If you say so. Wouldn't you agree that people just might not be so eager to kill each other if they only had clubs to use?
Chief. Give me a break... the mess in the Mid-East goes back to the Crusades. This is extremely complex business and, as I've said before on other subjects, academics spend their entire careers arguing about the details, so I'll admittedly over-simplify some stuff:
-Yeah - Canada was involved in Afghanistan and has a small military presence in Iraq. ISIS and the Taliban are bad news.
-The U.S. helped many twisted monsters gain power during the early '50s - one of them was the Shah of Iran, and he terrorized his subjects mercilessly while plundering his nation's treasury. Perfectly justifiably, there was a revolution in the '80s that was hijacked by Islamic fundamentalists who, not surprisingly had no love for the U.S. This led to the takeover of the U.S. Embassy and the hostage crisis. Needless to say, the U.S. was outraged, and remains so to this very day.
-The U.S. allied itself with Sadaam Hussein and supported him in his war against Iran and his own people.
-The Soviets invaded Afghanistan and the U.S. supplied the future Taliban with sophisticated weapons to resist the invasion, and the Soviets eventually left the country leaving behind a devastated nation and an estimated 1,000,000 dead Afghanis behind out of a population of 20(?) million. Instead of rewarding the Afghanis for fighting a proxy war for the U.S. against the Soviet Union, not one cent of foreign aid was provided to Afghanistan. This did nothing to prevent the rise of the Taliban.
-There was a major oil field located inside Kuwait near the disputed border with Iraq. Hussein asked April Glaspie, the U.S. representative in the region, if there was likely to be a problem if Iraq invaded Kuwait to take possession of this resource.
-Upon being assured that the U.S. had no interest in this matter, Hussein took the bait and invaded Kuwait. This led to the first U.S. war with Iraq, which resulted mainly in the death of thousands upon thousands of Iraqi conscripts and who know how many civilians. Sadaam's elite Republican Guard survived unscathed.
-The Kurds and other minorities were assured of U.S. aid by Bush Sr. if they mounted a revolt against Hussein. These poor fools actually believed that Bush Sr. had integrity and were massacred for their trust. Not a single atom of support from the U.S. materialized.
-After stealing the election from Gore, Dubya Bush and his co-defendants decided that Iraq was ripe for the plucking and orchestrated a hysteria campaign about non-existent mountains of WMDs.
-Iraq is blasted into the stone age and plundered. Over 100,000 Iraqi civilians die. Meanwhile, thousands of U.S. servicemen (and women) are killed or wounded, while private "contractors" with direct connections to the Bush presidency are provided with hundreds of billions of un-audited taxpayer dollars to serve alongside U.S. troops at a higher rate of pay for identical services.
-And now we have ISIS while fools like Chief babble platitudes.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Feb 21, 2015 - 08:56pm PT
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bvb: Devastating display of deep thought.
By the way, I believe you meant to say "generic politard thread IS a joke", but I'm willing to defer to your clearly superior intellect if I'm mistaken.
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crankster
Trad climber
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Feb 21, 2015 - 09:06pm PT
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Feb 21, 2015 - 04:44pm PT
It shows that GW actually LISTENED to his advisors....respected their professionalism.....and knew how to lead.
Quite the opposite of the charlatan currently residing in the White House.
Wow. That someone could believe this. The power of Fox. Incredible. And sad.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Feb 21, 2015 - 09:11pm PT
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bvb: Wow. I guess they must have missed when they performed the lobotomy.
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Stewart
Trad climber
Courtenay, B.C.
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:28pm PT
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bvb: Now I get it. Tourette's, right?
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Feb 21, 2015 - 10:46pm PT
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Cragman your crowing serves as a constant reminder.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Feb 21, 2015 - 11:21pm PT
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are you recruiting?
is this where one signs up
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 22, 2015 - 07:50am PT
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Ooooohrrrraaahhhh I've been converted!!!!
When do I receive my genuine authorized and authentic bvb suspenders for the cult of bvb (bullsh!t vs bullsh!t).....
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crankster
Trad climber
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Feb 22, 2015 - 07:59am PT
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F*#k the Bush dynasty. There is no there, there.
Let's assume it's Bush v Clinton in '16. You'll have plenty of time to denounce American dynasties. With good reason, although, I think Hillary will be a good president.
And this Bush is a better Bush...but not my cup of tea.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Feb 22, 2015 - 08:31am PT
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The man in the leather jacket is facing Mecca not Black Falls proving seal team six never got Osama..Isis is a smoke screen to take our feeble minds off of Al Qaudea , an Obama sponsored terror project...
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EdwardT
Trad climber
Retired
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Feb 22, 2015 - 09:17am PT
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The ignorance here is astounding at times.
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