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jstan
climber
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Ron, we have got it that you feel society should follow the dictates of your personal emotions. Quite unrelated to what is best for the society. We get that.
This thread has not been following you. It has been a very good thread.
I, too, have a reaction to all of this. But that's for me to deal with privately.
I have come to the conclusion society needs to examine closely how our society finds out the facts, how our authorities carry out their business, and how society sets its approach for dealing with transgressors.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Keeping a murderer locked up in a small cage until they die is cruel and unusual punishment...Euthanizing them frees up tax dollars that could be used for better societal purposes...
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SC seagoat
Trad climber
Santa Cruz CA
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Those that argue of the "great karmic consequence" of killing another forget
that defending the child torturer/murderer carries with it it's own karmic consequence. There is a world of difference between "defending" the actions of a child killer and "defending", or making sure, the alleged perpetrator has been given their Constitutionally guaranteed rights to due process. The Constituition protects the rights to bear arms as well as the right of due process, even for those accused of the most heinous acts. Can't cherry pick the Constitutional protections and rights we personally like and disregard the rest. It's not a document of personal convenience.
Susan
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville & Yucca brevifolia
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Those that argue of the "great karmic consequence" of killing another forget
that defending the child torturer/murderer carries with it it's own karmic consequence.
There is a world of difference between "defending" the actions of a child killer and "defending", or making sure, the alleged perpetrator has been given their Constitutionally guaranteed rights to due process. The Constituition protects the rights to bear arms as well as the right of due process, even for those accused of the most heinous acts. Can't cherry pick the Constitutional protections and rights we personally like and disregard the rest. It's not a document of personal convenience.
Susan
As many have suggested here, the fact that it is law does not make it right.
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ms55401
Trad climber
minneapolis, mn
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three in the ass, one in the head = Nobel Prize-winning-humanitarian-of-the-decade award
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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"As noted above, the problem with capital punishment is is not the act itself but, the unnecessarily long process."
I posted those victims comments. The problem, as I see it, is very much both the process and the act itself.
The act of killing another human being itself is barbaric on its face. Celebrating and reveling in it, as many have done here, is similarly barbaric. The death penalty legitimizes and promotes a barbaric meme - that our society can and should continue to kill our way out of problems. This can only degrade our culture and well being, and the effects of such degradation reach all of us, not just those directly affected by an execution. Killing as a solution also rarely works and more often backfires and perpetuates human misery - witness our recent successes in Vietnam, Afghanistan, and Iraq, and the increased lethality of our police, and, at a private level - the uptick in mass shootings. They are all various expressions of the same meme.
I don't believe state sponsored killing in any form is the way forward, and the US is becoming increasingly isolated in its widely held and practiced belief that it is. Other civilized countries have well functioning criminal justices systems and lower murder rates than the US without the death penalty. There are not fundamental reasons why the US cannot move in that direction.
And then there's the disturbing innocence rate and the severe racial and economic bias in the criminal justice system in general and application of the death penalty specifically. Finally, there is the sharp disparity state by state with which the death penalty is applied.
And the death penalty's lack of efficacy - it does not deter.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
I'm James Brown, Bi-atch!
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if everybody who murdered somebody were smart enough not to get caught then we would not need this debate, jus sayin...
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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As noted above, the problem with capital punishment is is not the act itself but, the unnecessarily long process.
Defendants that plead guilty or have irrefutable evidence against them could be executed the day after the trial. This would save victims families the decades of prolonged litigation and suffering as well as negate the great cost incurred by our current system.
It would also save the messy problem of freeing the ones wrongly convicted.
And the messy problem of following the Constitution.
But convenience wins out.
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jstan
climber
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Have just had a painful experience. I had an idea.
Suppose the condemned is definitely guilty and the verdict is just. Get all that out of the way. What do you think of the idea of letting every condemned person hire their own Doctor Death to help them on their way?
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John M
climber
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What do you think of the idea of letting every condemned person hire their own Doctor Death to help them on their way?
one problem.. I doubt many of them go willingly.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Tongue in cheek, I know, but neither 'definite' nor 'just' are ever guaranteed in any case.
You get what the imperfect process delivers and nothing more.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 3, 2014 - 11:52pm PT
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one problem.. I doubt many of them go willingly.
Some would, though probably not that many.
However, suppose a righteous trial/verdict. The lead up is still the same. We're going to take you to another room in which you will die as the legal system has decreed. You can choose how you want it done. Here's the list, but you can create another means, if it's not here (Edgar Allen Poe library on site).
Here's a few more that haven't shown up so far.
Infection with virus (such as HIV)
Exposure to leathal dose of radiation
Snake bite (e.g. Sherlock Holmes solved one)
Similar - spider in the ear (popularized by Star Trek)
Volunteer for a "never return to Earth" mission to outer space
Be put in a room with {your choice here} and be bored to death
Russian roulette (transgressor thinks he has a chance, gun is actually loaded with six nuclear bullets)
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Hizzoner, Czarius I.
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WBraun
climber
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Americans are such stupid hypocrites.
They go around in the world killing all kinds of people, slaughtering them mercilessly in the their stupid wars by the millions without winking their eyes.
They slaughter millions of animals every year mercilessly.
Kill kill kill is their motto.
Then when when someone is found guilty of murder in a court of law they cry like stupid sheep mercilessly that committing capital punishment is wrong.
All while continually murdering populations all over the planet to satisfy their own lust for power, resources and energies to drive their fairy tale utopian American dream.
The Ugly American is still alive and well as ever everywhere ......
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Um...yeah. I mentioned both the wrongness of the death penalty and all of our wars.
Look, Werner, you can plagiarize me all you want (is there anyone else here who's not rubbing his knob over the botched execution?), but don't turn around and hit me with a straw man built from my own statements.
Not classy, myan.
Cheerist.
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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Another stupid f*#king post to reply to an even stupider f*#king post.
No one is 'wringing their hands'.
Newsflash: Principled opposition to the death penalty predates this latest media shitshow.
As does opposition to our apparent love of going on state sponsored killing vacations.
That you haven't been involved in the discussion until a media shitshow grabs your attention doesn't exactly inform your opinions.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 4, 2014 - 10:39am PT
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Orale
Hydrogen Cyanide
Hydrofluoric Acid
Batrachotoxin
VX Nerve Gas
Agent Orange
Ricin
Arsenic
to be continued...
Lead
Brodifacoum
Strychnine
Your assisgnment, should you choose to accept, is to reseach where and by whom these poisons have been used
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Tvash
climber
Seattle
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...in a unitard
on the Shitshow Channel.
If I bite the other cheek you'll have to sit on your testicles.
Fair warning.
It kind of frosts me when some moron paints all Americans with the same brush - all the while decrying how 'America' does the same to ferners.
Stereotype much?
Here's a hint, Einstein: fully half the country is actively struggling making the place stand for what it's supposed to. In case you haven't noticed, it's hard with so many dumbshits of our own to contend with and so much money dangling about for them to sniff after.
Plus, ya live here. Join the fight and STFU about America this and America that. We've heard it. America's still pushing the civil liberties envelope for the entire world - still setting an example, even as it drones the sh#t out of an Afghan wedding party or two...or ten.
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