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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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It really puzzles me why being a gay boy scout leader
Openly... not a problem.
Deep in the closet... now we got some issues.
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More Air
Trad climber
S.L.C.
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"I Don't recall sexuality of any sort being much of an open issue as a scout. At least not from the program point of view. I don't recall a scoutmaster ever bringing up the issue in ANY manner."
Well the issue shouldn't be brought up, but just like the BSA doesn't join up with girl scouts, they don't want to deal with similar problems.
Hyper charged kids is enough of a handful!
Dave said: If we can remove a few insults from the vernacular of children, I'm going to call that progress.
Good point, we actually do teach that.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Good behavior is expected of scouts. Name calling isn't condoned and didn't happen as much in the scouts as it did most other places. Oh we were definitely kids and stuff but basically we behaved better in general while participating.
For example we had a fat kid who got picked on in school a lot more than he did in scouts. Gym classes could be merciless on the non-athletic. But It wasn't cool to pick on a fellow scout.
With proper guidance if the issue did come up in a troop it should be the same.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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If we can remove a few insults from the vernacular of children, I'm going to call that progress.
voodoo magic words like voodoo magic Gods...
From the experiences of the gay people I know
How big is that sample size again? 2 ex pastors?
I think hate against homosexuality is a learned trait, and it's learned all sorts of areas.
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dirtbag
climber
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We all know God has nothing better to do than to worry if Adam chooses Steve over Eve.
I still find it disturbing Klimmer teaches science. No wonder America sucks in science.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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I still find it disturbing Klimmer teaches science.
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More Air
Trad climber
S.L.C.
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surely, you do not believe that being gay is a "choice" or consideration one makes?
that has been proven wrong a long time ago
Pretty much agree with you there, but I'll tell you, some parents will feel uncomfortable with a gay scout leader or scout.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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^^^
No doubt about that.
Same holds true if they are black.
I'm all for a persons right to exclude themselves. I'm not all right with an organization making the choice for them.
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More Air
Trad climber
S.L.C.
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Same holds true if they are black.
Not true, Apples & Oranges
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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but I'll tell you, some parents will feel uncomfortable with a gay scout leader or scout.
but I'll tell you, some parents will feel uncomfortable with a black scout leader or scout.
-----
Both statements appear equally true to me.
I don't see what you mean by apples and oranges. ie that it's different somehow.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Scouting is not about sexual orientation, its about everything else. So if your sexuality becomes a issue in Boy Scouts, gay or hetero, then you're out of line. No way end the ban.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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So why are they making it an issue? You are correct the BSA are way out of line.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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On a serious note, the problem isn't gay scouts, but gay scout leaders. It's a recipe for abuse and pedophilia.
I don't trust most straight men with my kid on a camping trip. You want me to send him camping with a gay scout leader? Call me a homophobe, or whatever. It's common f*#king sense.
No, not all of them. But that's why they have the rules. To eliminate the possibility.
Blue...YOU are the problem. You are intent on keeping out people that have nothing to do with the crime committed. Why not keep out kangaroos? Just as effective.
You'll note that YOUR approach has been an abject failure. And the reason is obvious. You are targeting the wrong people.
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climbski2
Mountain climber
Anchorage AK, Reno NV
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Hey Ken! he could be on the right track.. perhaps if we banned all people out of the BSA then kids wouldn't be preyed upon in the BSA?
I'm pretty sure that would work.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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As a former Scout myself, and father of a Life Scout, the concern I have is of gay Scoutmasters being Boy-Buggerers! No parent worth his or her salt will willingly send a child off to camp to be molested. Most youngsters haven't yet a clue about their own sexual orientations at the age in which Scouting begins. So...no...I will not vote for "allowing gays to be in scouts." It really isn't about the boys, is it?
Brokedown, that is EXACTLY what you are doing, because, through your lack of knowledge, you are NOT screening out the people you have to worry about.
Gays assaulting children is so rare, as to be a headline event. Virtually unknown.
But you don't bother to screen for the people you really need to worry about....pedophiles.
Why are intent on protecting pedophiles and supporting their attacks on children?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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So...Climbski2...are YOU a parent? The business of being PC pales into insignificance to parents. I'm hopeful that someday a grandson of mine will become a Scout, and I really wouldn't appreciate a sexual predator as a Scoutmaster.
And yet.... you choose the PC position, based upon bias, wrong thinking, and a century of failed policy.
Your position INVITES a sexual predator as Scoutmaster. One wonders why you want that?
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Ken M, please don't confuse me with the homophobic dipshits here. I am absolutely NOT saying homosexuals molest children. Sorry if it came off that way.
I am saying people who have not developed a healthy sense of sexuality are more likely to molest children. I'm not sure how much you have dealt with Mormons, but they tend to have pretty twisted views on sexuality... especially homosexuality.
I am a firm believer that homosexuality is perfectly healthy, perfectly normal, and in no way predisposes anyone to child molestation. Religions that suppress natural sexual tendencies and retard sexual development are another story.
Point taken, sorry for the misunderstanding.
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dirtbag
climber
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I just started reading this--the last few pages only, in fact--but +1000 for Ken's fact-based BS debunking.
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Snowmassguy
Trad climber
Calirado
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One would think that a perv ( gay or straight) would find their way to to the Boy Scouts regardless of what the public stance is. You see this with other youth organizations( youth sports) . How many times have you read about the youth coach being arrested for inappropriate behavior and more recently, female teachers/coaches having inappropriate relationships with underaged youth. Sad world we live in.
While reading about this debate, I read that men can be leaders of Girl Scout troops with the restriction that a FEMALE adult is also present. Personally, I think having a parent present regardless of the leaders sexual orientation or gender is probably a really good idea.
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Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Jerry Sandusky & Penn State?
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