Dark night in Aurora, CO

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Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 20, 2012 - 07:35pm PT

Bloomberg:

The suspect in the Colorado shooting bought two pistols, a semiautomatic rifle and a shotgun since May, avoiding federal reporting requirements and taking advantage of the state’s failure to pass significant firearms legislation since the Columbine massacre 13 years ago.

The suspect, James Holmes, 24, didn’t purchase the handguns from the same store within five days, which would have triggered a requirement for the seller to notify the U.S. Justice Department, according to a federal official who asked for anonymity and wasn’t authorized to speak publicly. Holmes hadn’t committed any offenses that would have raised an alarm during required background checks, the official said.

...

After Columbine, a measure requiring background checks for purchases at gun shows passed the U.S. Senate and stalled in the House. There were no major gun control measures approved after the Virginia Tech shooting or when Jared Lee Loughner opened fire last year in a parking lot near Tucson, killing six and wounding Giffords.

In Colorado, state lawmakers refused to pass new gun control measures after Columbine. Voters responded by approving a constitutional amendment that required background checks before firearms could be purchased at a gun show.

A bill that would have eliminated Colorado’s background check system, known as InstaCheck, passed the Republican- controlled Colorado House this year and stalled in the Senate, controlled by Democrats. The measure was backed by the National Rifle Association, which said the check duplicated federal requirements.

...

Two of the guns were purchased at the Denver store of Bass Pro Shops, said Larry Whiteley, manager of communications for the Springfield, Missouri-based company. The store followed federal requirements and background checks were conducted, Whiteley said in a statement.

In Colorado, there are no specific regulations that would prohibit those guns from being owned, said Robert Brown, the agent in charge of background checks at the Colorado Bureau of Investigation.

Waiting Period

Colorado doesn’t require gun registration and there is no specific waiting period to buy a gun. Instead, purchases are approved as soon as U.S. authorities clear a list of 10 criteria, such as assuring the buyer isn’t a fugitive or an illegal alien, and the state conducts its own checks, including for restraining orders and juvenile arrests.

Colorado allows residents to carry concealed weapons. Sheriffs approve concealed-carry permits if applicants are at least 21, haven’t committed perjury and complete a gun training course, among other requirements. The state also recognizes concealed-carry permits from 30 other states.

Colorado residents with a permit cannot carry a firearm in schools, some government buildings and on private property where guns are prohibited by the owner, Brown said.
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 20, 2012 - 07:47pm PT
Let's be honest and clear up front - we are the world's top weapons exporter and to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars. To accomodate that industry and it's primary lobbyist we allow the unbridled proliferation of small arms in the U.S.

There is no solution to that problem within our current corporate/political culture because of the money involved and - one way or another - we all live off and pay for the arms business in one way or another. Until we decide we don't want to suck at that tit and pay the price anymore, incidents like this one will continue to be just occasional line items in the total cost of doing business - it has nothing whatsoever to do with the Constitution, only money. The constitutional arguments border on irrelevant in the nation we live in today.

So yeah, choose to carry a legit weapon or not - but it's the deliberate proliferation of cheap small arms in this country that make it feel like you may want or need to.
Don Paul

Big Wall climber
Colombia, South America
Jul 20, 2012 - 07:49pm PT
FACTS & FIGURES

March 2009 - A 28-year-old laid-off worker opened fire while driving a car through several towns in Alabama, killing 10 people.telegraph.co.uk

March 2009 - A heavily-armed gunman shot dead eight people, many of them elderly and sick people, in a private-owned nursing home in North Carolina.

March 2009 - Six people were shot dead in a high-grade apartment building in Santa Clara, California.

April 2009 - An 18-year-old former student followed a pizza deliveryman into his old dormitory, and shot the deliveryman, a dorm monitor, and himself at Hampton University, Virginia.

April 2009 - A man shot dead 13 people at a civic center in Binghamton, New York.

July 2009 - Six people, including one student, were shot in a drive-by shooting at a community rally on the campus of Texas Southern University, Houston.

November 2009 - U.S. army psychologist Major Nidal Hasan opened fire at a military base in Fort Hood, Texas, leaving 13 dead and 42 others wounded.

February 2010 - A professor opened fire 50 minutes into at a Biological Sciences Department faculty meeting at the University of Alabama, killing three colleagues and wounding three others

January 2011 - A gunman opened fire at a public gathering outside a grocery in Tuscon, Arizona, killing six people including a nine-year-old girl and wounding at least 12 others. Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords was severely injured with a gunshot to the head. telegraph.co.uk
rectorsquid

climber
Lake Tahoe
Jul 20, 2012 - 07:50pm PT
There are psychos out there and if that guy couldn't buy a gun, he could still have bought some gasoline and burned the place. The people need fixing as much, or more, than the gun laws.

This stuff sucks but it's rare. Very rare. How many people died in their cars in that state this month?

Dave

[edit] Anyone have statistics on knifings or head beatings or dunks running over people? That might put this in perspective.

[edit] The information about a military person killing people doesn't count as an argument for gun control since the military would not be affected by civilian gun control (if that was the intent of the statistics).

kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jul 20, 2012 - 07:51pm PT
Where's this guy during all this? If he was doing his job there would be no need for guns.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:01pm PT
Someone would just figure out how to conceal one in their trench coat
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:01pm PT
This stuff sucks but it's rare. Very rare.

Wait, not so rare that one of the women killed yesterday had narrowly escaped unharmed in a similar rampage last month in a Toronto mall only to be gunned down in Aurora.

Now, I don't about you, but it makes me remarkably uncomfortable that, despite the perception of the odds, the same person could experience, and die in, not one but two of these incidents in the span of weeks and thousands of miles.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:02pm PT
but it's the deliberate proliferation of cheap small arms in this country that make it feel like you may want or need to.

No, it's the crime that makes me feel that way.



Just curious, but I get the impression from most of the anti-gun/anti-carry posts, that even if there had been one or more gun toting cops or security guards in the theater at the time, your advice would be to NOT shoot the bad guy for fear that some innocent bystander might get shot?

If the answer is that it would be OK for cops to shoot back but not armed citizens...can you please explain your logic?
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:17pm PT
It would have been great for an armed citizen to smoke that guy the second he threw the smoke grenade. problem is that with armor said citzen or cop would have to be mighty frosty to hit the kill zone with a pistol in bad light with smoke and confusion.. Bottom line though is that a citizen carrying 24/7 for their lifetime most likly has a greater chance of haveing a tradgedy of some sort than they do of being a hero and saveing the day. Heck I recently had to talk a friend down from killing my boss. My boss had an affair with my friends wife and he wanted very much to shoot my boss. I taught him how to shoot. (the boss would have been reasonably safe outside of 10 yards) but I would have felt very much responsible in that situation.
Chaz

Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:19pm PT
Healyje writes:

"Let's be honest and clear up front - we are the world's top weapons exporter and to the tune of hundreds of billions of dollars."

Hundreds of billions? Are you sure? Remember, we're being honest now.

Our #1 Export - by a long shot - is civilian aircraft, at about $75 billion. That's 50% more than the #2 export; semiconductors.

Weapons don't even crack the Top Ten list of U.S. exports.

http://www.worldsrichestcountries.com/top_us_exports.html

I don't know where you got that "hundreds of billions" figure.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:21pm PT
Where doe's your boss go to church?
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:27pm PT
problem is that with armor said citzen or cop would have to be mighty frosty to hit the kill zone with a pistol in bad light with smoke and confusion..

maybe, depends on the range...but is it your opinion then to not even try?
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:35pm PT
Strike a nerve Lolli?

Yea I am afraid of criminals with guns, where as you are afraid of guns.
There is a big difference.

BTW I wasn't trying to insult you, unlike your hurtful remarks toward me...
I was simply stating a fact.
Most people I have encountered ARE afraid of guns until they are taught how to handle them safely, shoot them properly etc...
I know this from teaching many people to shoot.
I was a certified pistol instructor and taught quite a few people including women who had never shot much less held a gun.... so I do have a little bit of knowledge on the subject.
Binks

climber
Uranus
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:42pm PT
ban all handguns
tradmanclimbs

Ice climber
Pomfert VT
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:44pm PT
Shack. the point is that citizen A carys gun entire life and never gets a chance to be the one who takes that shot that saves someones life. Citizen A does however have to deal with all the other trials and tribulations of life such as cheating lovers,arshole bosses, arsehole drivers, drunken binges, work stress, relationship stress, substance abuse issues, momentary lapses of judgement, depression, etc, etc, etc. all the while with a loaded gun on their person. The chances of an accident or momentary laps of judgement far outweigh the chances of being a hero. That being said I do not know what the answer is? Given the scenario I would rather be armed than not but chances are about 100% that I won't be armed in a movie theater any time soon and if I was armed chances are 99.999999999999999% that nothing would need shooting.
kennyt

climber
Woodfords,California
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:45pm PT
I've made it 47 years without having to shoot anyone.
blahblah

Gym climber
Boulder
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:51pm PT
Yes, I am quite scared of nuts with guns, I admit that. But you know, it's only when I'm travelling to the USA it's an issue. When I roam other places on this planet, it's a non-issue.
I don't know where you "roam on the planet," but if you think the US is the only place that has gun violence, you're wrong. Many countries in Central and South America and the Carribean have far higher murder rates than the US, and I don't think they're just bashing each other with clubs, although I'm sure there's a fair amount of that. As I understand it, lots of Western tourists to various parts of Africa don't leave the sight of heavily armed guards. Etc.
While it's fine to have different views on gun regulations, if you want to use this thread to bash the US, just get lost.
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:53pm PT
and if I was armed chances are 99.999999999999999% that nothing would need shooting.

You hope that's true, but those people in the theater thought the same thing.
Skeptimistic

Mountain climber
La Mancha
Jul 20, 2012 - 08:56pm PT
I would just like to express my most profound thanks to the moron who created more jobs for the minions of the dept of "homeland security" in the way of full body scans at movie houses. Better arrive an hour early if you want to get a decent seat...
Shack

Big Wall climber
Reno NV
Jul 20, 2012 - 09:09pm PT
Of course carry guns are intended to shoot people. There is no one who is going to dispute that.
But if you are going to call shooting someone in self defense "murder", then you are obviously off the deep end and there is no point in conversing with the insane.

and I'm condescending by saying "including women"? Ridiculous.

and what motivates a statement like yours then?
I see concealed gun carriers as potential murderers.

Isn't anyone a potential murderer or only someone "insane" enough to carry a gun for self defense?
Messages 161 - 180 of total 321 in this topic << First  |  < Previous  |  Show All  |  Next >  |  Last >>
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