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ruppell
climber
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You got some ignorant moron blasting the history of Unionization on this thread AGAIN?
Remember that unionization is in reality your right to freely associate and bargain with your employer. Without unions you are dependant on the love of your Bosses and owners.
History is FULL of examples of bosses who didn't give a SH#T about the working classes.
If it's free why pay union dues? Just sayin.
Employers and unions suck. Go out on a limb and be self under-employed.
why California is broke - OT
My guess is cause the are running out of money to fund their social programs. More taxes seems about right.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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I'll let you in on a little secret..Government workers don't retire as millionaires..Maybe a few at the top ..so quit over-generalizing...Fact...while union government workers are being pressured to take pay cuts to help balance the state budget , non-unionized government manager positions continue to receive bonuses..California ain't broke...! Government workers typically get payed less and receive medical benefits to compensate for the lower pay..but now , after over characterizing government workers as millionaires , the elite want to take health benefits away from the lower tiered government workers , unless of course you are in management and control the purse strings... Do you mean to tell me the millionaires are broke in California are broke..?... they are sitting on their fat wallets watching the working class fight over the scraps..Got any more brilliant propaganda to spew..?
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pyro
Big Wall climber
Calabasas
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Kali is f*#ked in SO MANY ways. Nice geography, f*#ked up government and on the whole, f*#ked up people.
and you think i'm gonna listen to u now rocjoy.
california's are the most taxed but who know's where it goes.
county of ventura has some one-hundred-thousand something millionaires living there. MUST BE NICE!
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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"Dave,
and had little to do with unions
You are blowing smoke out of your ass by refusing to acknowledge the role that Union men played by literally fighting and laying down their lives for your safety. Without the United Mine Workers they would still be stacking you guys up like cordwood.
Just two years ago in Utah was a shining example of how benevelent mine owners can be. The owners are REALLY good at playing guys like you off the other workers. Yeah, that's the ticket, we're better off with no representation. Maybe you should go back to the company town days, I know you'd rather get paid in company scrip. "
The Crandall Canyon coal mine disaster was in 2007. The disaster report is public information - have you read it? I have.
You haven't been doing too well with you facts thus far. If you are going to try to bash someone, its best to know what the F* you are talking about.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Dave: you are correct in one thing, I should have said,"a couple of years ago".
You can't dispute anything else I said. I'm glad that there are Union men and women fighting for your safety and well being since you are apparently too gullible (actually, too selfish to pitch in a couple of bucks is probably more accurate) to do so for yourself. I would hate to read about you in the next big mine disaster story.
I'm glad to pitch in with my Union brothers and sisters. We ran the best political ads in the whole country during the last election cycle.
Oh, by the way, Happy Labor Day. I'm glad you are still alive to enjoy it!
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James Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Unions have issues; but to enjoy overtime pay, healthcare, paid vacation, retirement programs, minimum wage, a safe working environment, unemployement insurance, pensions, etc. without tipping your hat to the unions makes you one hell of an ingrate.
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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The only part of Skipts diatribe i agree with is contained in the first part of this quote. Unions have issues;
The whole thing reads fine, well said james:
Unions have issues; but to enjoy overtime pay, healthcare, paid vacation, retirement programs, minimum wage, a safe working environment, unemployement insurance, pensions, etc. without tipping your hat to the unions makes you one hell of an ingrate.
IMO, people should be both involved in their unions, and they should be voluntary. Ask any united mine worker of old what he thinks and why. After hearing it if you work in that field you will not want to be without a union ....ever. Yet not all industries need them. Make it voluntary to join, and those not needed will disappear. Those that are critical will stay.
Regards to all!
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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"I'm glad to pitch in with my Union brothers and sisters. We ran the best political ads in the whole country during the last election cycle. "
And that, my friend, says it all about the current state of unions.
By the way, since you and couchmaster seem to know so much about the UMWA, and the safety of coal mining I'm curious which coal mines you work or have worked at?
I've spent time underground at these:
West Elk (Co)
Bowie (Co)
San Juan (NM)
Dugout (Ut)
Willow Lake (Il)
Highland #9 (Ky)
American Energy (Oh)
Jupiter (Wv)
Harris #1 (Wv)
The two in WV were union. Any guesses as to which two were the scariest, and with the people who moved the slowest?
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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I usually don't bother popping into these threads as the arguments are mainly moot and the opinions generally expressed are largely based on some sort of skewed factual bullsh#t.
... but did I read that CHP employees get paid an average of 100,000+ a year plus benefits???
That is completely misguided info. I don't know who fabricated that statement but it's nowhere near the truth. If it is, then you all can come visit me when I finish my new 40ft in ground swimming pool complete with ambient lighting, wrap around stone decking, waterfall and deep water soloing cave and wall.
Truth is, starting wage for Cali CHP is about 60K with benefits. Most Officers top out somewhere around 85K. Overtime is where the money's at. Any officer making anything near 100K is either of high rank, special "service" officer, pulling down massive amounts of O.T. or some combination there of.
Officers do receive a great pension yes, but remember, a pension is a promise, not a guarantee.
Police officers get paid well but if you only understood how much liability, mandatory overtime, paper work and bullshit they have to deal with day after day, not including dealing with the majority of as#@&%es that make up the general public, then you'd know how under paid they really are.
36 days of vacation a year... yeah, accept you get to spend about 12 of those days spread throughout in a courthouse appearing for a subpoena.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Well if it ain't the CHP that are breaking the state , let's find another scapegoat...The boxboys at unionized grocery stores..
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Can't be the damned commie union boxboys, cause the proud state of Texas doesn't allow no damned communist unions, and they are in debt 27 billion dollars.
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Knave
Trad climber
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The plan is working: Pit the lower and middle classes against each other. Cause the Walmart worker to believe that cops and firefighters and teachers and nurses with their unions and unfunded pension liabilities are the problem. When in reality the real crooks are laughing all the way to the banks that they work in. This division will surely be the end of the middle class.
Market Capitalism in it's end stages?
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
The land of Fruits & Nuts!
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It's not just the rich, or the poor handout mongers, or the middle class, pensions, unions etc... that are killing America. Obama and the congress of elected judges, senators and other government officials are not the problem. The Democrats are not the problem neither are the Republicans. The real problem with America is the citizenry willing and able to entrust the kind of people we have in Government today. The poor decision making, crooked deals and general corruptness happening in Washington are things that can be quickly corrected and the negative effects reversed should "we the people" actually vote those people out of Washington. The problems we face today are relatively easy fixes. What is not so hard to fix is restoring the common sense and good judgement of the people who put these fools in office. Calling Obama a moron and placing blame on this or that party, senators and elected officials has blinded the conscious American voters to the vast majority of morons that elected these fools in the first place. Whatever bad policies and poor decisions are made, America can survive. An Obama or Bush presidency, recession and poor economy, America can survive. What we're less likely to survive is the mass number of morons who continually put these people in office.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Oh really? ^^^
Compared to the 700,000 jobs per MONTH LOST when your Republicans had the Presidency?
How about the six TRILLION dollars added to the National Debt when your Republicans had the Presidency?
When will you get it that you have ZERO credibility when it comes to actually "governing"?
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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The average cop lives to 65 or 70? So ya'll really do eat a lot of doughnuts? :)
Mean life expectancy as of 2007 is 78. as of 2005, men were averaging 75.
So if you retire at 50 or 55 and live to 80 (a little longer than average), you collect a pension as long or longer than you work. That was my point.
Yes, I read the article.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Dave..are you advocating shortening the lives of law enforcement officers..?
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Dave
Mountain climber
the ANTI-fresno
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Uh, no.
If I read Jody's post right, they do that themselves? Not sure if its the bacon or the doughnuts. Jody might be able to tell us.
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