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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Aug 17, 2010 - 12:51am PT
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"Moderate Islam"? Are those the ones that don't believe in the teachings of the Koran?
There's already over 100 mosques in NY city, why build one there?
Muslims have a history of building mosques on sites that they see as religiously important. It will be a symbol of victory to all Muslims and be portrayed as a sign that Alah is on their side. It will be used as a recruiting tool as well.
The mosque builders even initially called it the "ground zero" mosque.
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Mighty Hiker
climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 17, 2010 - 12:53am PT
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Muslims have a history of building mosques on sites that they see as religiously important. So do Christians, and perhaps other faiths. Many Christian churches in Europe, at least, were built on sites that were sacred to the religions that they displaced. It was a symbol that your beliefs had beaten the others. Druids, Wiccans, and the Valhalla bunch have been grumpy ever since.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Aug 17, 2010 - 12:55am PT
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MH that is so completely beside the point, but obviously you don't disagree.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Aug 17, 2010 - 12:56am PT
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Do the republicans have any issue they push that does not involve white fear, angst, outrage, and indignation? I'm sure missing it if they do.
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bmacd
climber
Relic Hominid
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Aug 17, 2010 - 01:14am PT
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I luved this observation:
Strict Islamic tolerance is limited to the size of your dick
Islam works very well, if you are one of the guys running the show, or are a man. Why just the other day, one of my Islamic neighbours knifed his wife in the back and shoved her off the 10th floor balcony of a apartment building. I can post pics of the body if you like. Don't worry folks - just another "HONOR" killing in Vancouver.
Canada is well on it's way to becoming a failed state thanks to ultra liberal "tolerance" views on religious beliefs and who qualifies as a refugee.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 17, 2010 - 01:18am PT
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bmacd wrote: Why just the other day, one of my Islamic neighbours knifed his wife in the back and shoved her off the 10th floor balcony of a apartment building.
Like Christians have never done such acts.
What is your point other than trying to demonize all Muslims?
What do you make of this....Most serial killers were raised strict Christian. USA produces 80% of the world's serial killers, yet has only 5% of world's population. USA is 75% Christian.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Aug 17, 2010 - 01:45am PT
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Lois said:
"It is my belief that there is a strong inhibition in the Muslin crowd to speak out against their own. Whether it is cultural or whatever, the end result is that we do not see a whole lot of vocal condemnation of extremist from this crowd, in the general sense."
Well, you don't hold yourself out to be a media specialist, an expert on Muslim Culture, or a follower of American Muslim media (or do you have a few subscriptions that would surprise us), so how do you come to this "belief". Is it the result of your watching of the mainstream media, or even worse, the right-wing media, neither of which is likely to have extensive coverage of Muslim outrage over 911, eh? Or is it the result of somthing that you can actually cite?
Lois says:
"By contrast, the westerners are very willing to condemn "their own" (notice the quotes) whenever appropriate. We speak out loudly and in very harsh terms against the KKK, the perps at Abu Graib, the violent miscreants within our society, etc. We don't hold back and beat around the bush."
Glad you don't believe in the "thin blue line": docs, lawyers, nurses refusing to testify against each other, and all the other things that people say is true.
By the way, a Muslim who lives in the west is a "westerner". You keep trying to define these religious people geographically, which it is not.
Lois says
"I don't see the same willingness of the part of the Muslims to openly and loudly censure the evil-doers within their own ranks. They are much more convert and circumspect about what they say and this translates (in our culture) to tacit approval on some level. Again, Ken, it may be a cultural thing but it comes across very poorly. I'd like for you to comment on whether there IS, in fact, a cultural inhibition against speaking out against one's "own." "
You will not see extensive interviews of muslims by Rush and cohorts, no matter how much muslim leaders might yell and scream.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 17, 2010 - 01:50am PT
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Like Christians have never done such acts.
Not in the name of Christianity!!!! Not on the same level of honor killings take place in Islam.
Uh wait, you'll bring up an abortion bomber, Hitler, and McVeigh, right??? And yet no condemnation for the Weather Underground, Hamas, et al....
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bmacd
climber
Relic Hominid
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:01am PT
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Bob D'A wake up and smell the coffee, or become a politician.
Islamists are a problem, everywhere. A guy could do really well in the world if he had a nation of people stupid enough to get worked up over Mohammed cartoons worshipping him.
Did you marginalize your wife this morning ?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:14am PT
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Are you f*#king serious, Matt??? Olberman???
I expect better from you.
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dirtbag
climber
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:20am PT
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Do the republicans have any issue they push that does not involve white fear, angst, outrage, and indignation? I'm sure missing it if they do.
You forgot selfishness.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:27am PT
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from a 2007 Washington Times article with a blogger's comment inserted:
Navy imam Chaplain Abuhena M. Saifulislam lifted his voice to God as he called to prayer more than 100 Department of Defense employees Monday at a celebration of Ramadan at the Pentagon.
God is most great, sang the lieutenant commander and Islamic leader, in Arabic, as iftar -- the end of the daily fast began.
Uniformed military personnel, civilians and family members faced Mecca and knelt on adorned prayer rugs chanting their prayers in quiet invocation to Allah.
When it comes to Muslims praying at Ground Zero, it doesn't get much Ground Zeroier than that! As Elliott observes:
Yes, Muslims have infiltrated the Pentagon for their nefarious, prayerful purposes -- daring to practice their religion inside the building where 184 people died on Sept. 11, 2001. They haven't even had the sensitivity to move two blocks, let alone a mile, away from that sacred site.
Oh, my stars and garters! These Muslims at the Pentagon probably even have security clearances! (Because they are Department of Defense employees who protect America from al Qaeda death cultists, I'm guessing.)
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:35am PT
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Like Christians have never done such acts.
What is your point other than trying to demonize all Muslims?
Wow. Don't tell me you guys lack the logic skill to see there is a clear difference.
Just because a Christian or a Jew etc. has done it, it wasn't because their religion teaches to do it. It is a huge distintion.
Not a related quote...just one of my faves:
"And do not kill any one whom Allah has forbidden, except for a just cause, and whoever is slain unjustly, We have indeed given to his heir authority, so let him not exceed the just limits in slaying;"
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:46am PT
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Navy imam Chaplain Abuhena M. Saifulislam lifted his voice to God as he called to prayer more than 100 Department of Defense employees Monday at a celebration of Ramadan at the Pentagon.
Whew! Good thing they weren't Christians! I'll bet if they were,
then you guys would have your panties all in a bunch, screaming about "separation of church and state".
BTW: I do believe under the US Constitution and Federal law , they have every right to build a mosque wherever they want, even if it shows poor taste, bad judgement and offends many Americans.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:50am PT
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Wow. Don't tell me you guys lack the logic skill to see there is a clear difference.
No they have the skills, they would rather call you a racist though. It's easier and sounds more 'superior' in their minds. But you know this..
Good news is most Americans are tired of it. They see through this crap now.
EDIT:
Whew! Good thing they weren't Christians! I'll bet if they were,
then you guys would have your panties all in a bunch, screaming about "separation of church and state".
Good point. Where is the ACLU at? Shouldn't they be suing the Pentagon?
I'm sure they're working in it...F*#king commies.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 17, 2010 - 02:56am PT
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Shack writes
I do believe under the US Constitution and Federal law , they have every right to build a mosque wherever they want, even if it shows poor taste, bad judgement and offends many Americans.
It only shows poor taste if you believe that we are at war with Islam.
Since there are more than 1 billion Muslims, you could make a case that the percentage of muslim terrorists is far smaller than the percentage of pedophile priests. Is it bad taste to have a cathedral near a school? Only if you believe Catholicism is a religion of Child Molesters. It isn't. Why should Islam accept your negative definition of them?
All those things you can quote that are ugly about things written in the Koran, you can find equally ugly things in the Bible. There are also Christians who believe that all non-believers will be tortured in Hell for billions of years and there is a history of killing people to enforce the spread of that religion. Why do we amplify the darkness in others and ignore our own.
Disclaimer: I'm going to freely admit that I have prejudiced feelings against strict interpreters of Islam, and of Haters of all faiths (and non-faiths) everywhere.
Peace
karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 17, 2010 - 03:07am PT
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http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/tue-august-10-2010/municipal-land-use-update---ground-zero-mosque
Geez, I don't get how the very people who wave the flag the loudest are the ones who oppose the very liberties and freedoms the country stands for.
Guess what, liberty and freedom are not just for those beliefs and practices that we like and do ourselves. The people who founded this country practiced religious views that were persecuted in their home countries.
Oh wait. maybe the right wing has a point. The founding fathers were terrorists who betrayed their country and created a new country with freedom of religion. Maybe these muslims are trying to create New Yorkistan, which you can build a mosque if you want!
Peace
Karl
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Aug 17, 2010 - 03:10am PT
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There are also Christians who believe that all non-believers will be tortured in Hell for billions of years and there is a history of killing people to enforce the spread of that religion. Why do we amplify the darkness in others and ignore our own.
That's not the issue, is it? We're not talking about a Catholic Church in Mecca, are we?
Always the moral equivocation...And this from a Hindu whose people had temples smashed by muslim invaders to set their seal of dominance.
Keep up your 'peace'. It will destroy you and your faith.
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