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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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By the way, what's your name?
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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No dumb asses, because it comes down to simple f*#king respect for others
um yeah... 'cause you're oozing respect.
Classic.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Really...
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Fine. You are all right. Please, go ahead, have a party. Please, on behalf of climbers everywhere, encourage the land owner to allow us on to his property.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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By the way Juanda Fucca, who the hell are you?
You claim to know so much about Wally, I want to know who you are. My guess, you don't a thing.
You are yet another coward who hides behind a moniker speaking words you cannot back up.
You know know nothing of which you speak.
Put up or shut up.
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Tony Bird
climber
Northridge, CA
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"simple f*#king respect for others"
i love it!
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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My guess is that you love very little.
I'm done.
By all means, please pursue this at all costs. I'm sure the owner will love us all for it.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Amazing that this thread has gone into an out of control free for all.
IT'S NOT YOU'RE F*#KING PROPERTY. LEAVE IT ALONE. CLIMB SOMEWHERE ELSE WHERE THIS IS NOT AN ISSUE.
Wow, that's complicated.
RLF you are just slow. Go back and read. It is not established with any clarity yet whose property the lower falls routes are even on. A difference of 30 feet could change everything there.
Also your constant misinformation here, saying things like "there was a recent opportunity to buy that parcel" does not help. There was a transfer of title. The seller is not identified in the public records (a bit unusual - but it happens) to a Little Lake Ranch Inc. Since Mr. Ivey hs been there a while we must assume this was a transfer from him to his company, not a public offer. Alternately the seller could have been BLM. If this was done without public notice we have an entirely new can of worms.
Everyone should go home now. And don't use this discussion to project your personal experiences with trespassers in a very different situation and vent on that subject as if it is relevant to the FF situation. It is not.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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word
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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I can clearly see why you all are having growing amounts of access issues down there in So Cal.
I don't see that happenning much at all. Williamson is the elephant in the corner down here. Other than that one difficult closure, at Echo the managers made a good, and moderate decision. SoCal has tons of great climbing and abuse by climbers, and access, are not much of an issue. Of course once in a while some kook comes along and does weird stuff, but folks like that are a real minority in the climbing world. I really don't get your comment. Access will be the issue in the future, but to point the finger at one area, at one group of climbers is not productive.
Also, I seriously doubt that it was climbers who took down the old "no trespassing" signs which were then at least 100 yards south of the lower FF area. It was more like 300 yds. No one gives a hoot about Scott's Bluff, but the climbs in FF proper are good and worth doing.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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By the way Juanda Fucca, who the hell are you?
You claim to know so much about Wally, I want to know who you are. My guess, you don't a thing.
You are yet another coward who hides behind a moniker speaking words you cannot back up.
You know know nothing of which you speak.
Put up or shut up.
I never claimed to be an expert on Wally--haven't seen him in years--but I knew him well enough to know that he wouldn't want you discussing him on SuperTopo forum.
I have my own reasons for posting anonymously--one of many reasons being that I'd like to maintain good relations with my climbing friends and acquaintances that seem to be bigger as#@&%es, idiots and wackjobs on ST than they ever were in person; the good still almost always outweighs the bad.
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WBraun
climber
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By calling all your so called friends idiots, assh'oles and wackjobs anonymously, you are a coward.
Sorry, there's just no way around that excuse at all.
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Slater
Trad climber
Central Coast
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Tell Ivy to post up :)
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Mr Fonda is a "hot-headed jerk" ?
He seems to demonstrate more restraint than I have been able to muster in trespass situations. First thing I do is release the Dobermans. ( my big female can hear a two-stroke from a mile away )
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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^^^^
Those Avocado thieves must have been very clandestine :)
Dogs rule, especially Dobermans.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin place
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By calling all your so called friends idiots, assh'oles and wackjobs anonymously, you are a coward.
Sorry, there's just no way around that excuse at all.
Werner,
In that sense, so be it.
We're all idiots, assh'oles and wackjobs to some degree--myself included. I can get pretty ruthless in my arguments, but I value my friendships more than any on-line points I might score.
I hope you and Merry are well.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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"I never claimed to be an expert on Wally--haven't seen him in years--but I knew him well enough to know that he wouldn't want you discussing him on SuperTopo forum."
You clearly have no clue as to what you are talking about. My current property management responsibilities, in the context of THIS THREAD do not involve wally in any way. The property I speak of that I am managing is not his.
Get your facts straight. Your "good" reasons for posting anonymously lack all credibility.
You don't know wally. That's clear. You brought him up. You came in late to the game and started tossing names, not me.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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"RLF you are just slow. "
I wouldn't count on it.
Fine, it was a land transfer. Happy now? Pick at the last meat on the bones if you wish. What NOBODY has been able to convince me of is why this particular little spot is so precious that they feel this overwhelming need to negotiate access rights with the owner.
Leave it alone.
There are far bigger access issues than this. By a long shot. Please, don't bother with the every minor battle we win is another brick in the wall argument.
It doesn't wash.
"And don't use this discussion to project your personal experiences with trespassers in a very different situation and vent on that subject as if it is relevant to the FF situation. It is not."
Actually, it really is. The more and more I read this thread, I am starting to seriously doubt the statements made by the OP. Just read the title of this thread.
Isn't it interesting that he hasn't had much to say for a while?
Yeah, I'm real slow.
My guess, we got suckered by a "hot-headed jerk" who brought this situation to a boil. Now here we are. Where is he?
Nowhere to be found.
What bothers me is this whole 30' feet could make all the difference. You've gotta be kidding me.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Interesting response.
Please, feel free to "handle it".
Does this mean when bigger access issues come about in other areas outside of your area you won't be concerned?
Again, NO ONE has addressed the question I have been asking all along. What is so special about this area?
Why does some minor crag deserve all this special attention?
We (as climbers) have the entire east side of the Sierra's to climb in. A large portion of which does not involve encroaching on somebodies right to own property. That is the real issue at stake here.
By the way, I am headed to the pit this morning. If what I think I am going to find is true, then we can see how really "special" climbers are.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Chief, good on you for working on this situation. who knows what the "truth" is in what happened, reading this thread has been entertaining at best. "Help a brother out!" man this thing has spiraled into a hate thread. Been to the falls a few times and it is a cool place, but if it is private property, only harm can come of tresspassers. We as climbers NEED to respect private property and sometimes through negotiations good things can come of it.
Robert.....can I come pick some strawberries Brother? I need to sit with you and have a drink or two....I know your passion in this matter, but don't let these guys get you so riled up.....what you do out there is great and you do a great job, criticism of you is probably by people who don't know you, blow it off. when it cools down out there, I think there was some left over booze under the picnic table when I last left, we're gonna booze a bit! Hope things are better with your wives brother and you're doing good!
Peace
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