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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Hmmm......
This thread seems to be converging with the evolution vs. creation thread.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Meanwhile, I will have to run the Srbphoto hypothesis by my Sherpa friends next time we are together.Sherpa yeti are gay!
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bmacd
Trad climber
British Columbia
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this is the Sasquatch image I promised to post that was taken by my native friend this May in the area we had all the rocks tossed at us. A relatively small Bigfoot, 6 or 7 foot tall peeking out from behind the stump
I brightened the photo which is why it is so washed out. He has a very poor camera unfortunately.
This second image I am not sure, but I believe this may be the himilayas and obviously from a long time ago Judging by the wooden ice axe. A Shipton image maybe.
The following 3 are frames from the Patterson Gimlin film shot in the late 60's
A size comparison
and the photo up loader has now packed it in on me but I have a few more here
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Clearly these photos are not all of the same thing.
The top one has a human face with a prominent nose and chin. It looks to have straight cut bangs and mutton shop whiskers. Or else part of a fuzzy mask has been square cut. I say a male human in a fuzzy suit.
The second photo looks to be yeti prints from the Himalaya. I've never seen this particular photo before but it looks quite fake to me. No creature walks with one foot ahead of the other in an exact straight line. This is a practical joke, not a yeti footprint.
The third photo looks to be a human in a fuzzy suit. It even looks like it has a belt around the waist and the face is clean shaven surrounded by a hood.
The fourth photo is unnatural also. The bottom of the left foot is a flat piece of white leather or plastic that has been sewed onto an ape suit. The sole has been curled up onto the foot before being attached.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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The last photo could be a composite of two or three photos or a guy wearing a fur piece with head attached on top of his head.
It looks like a guy with the right side of his face exposed and looking rightward.
You can also look above the white cheek and nose and see what looks like a cat like figure/maybe dog/maybe lesser panda with two eyes, round ears and nose.
From another view, it looks like the guy is looking right, his head is cocked and there is an animal with large round ears and close together beedy eyes and a long nose (fox.lemur?), plus an arm reaching around to grasp the man's face.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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The really interesting question is who has a vested interest in dressing up like an ape and going through the woods. Drug smugglers? Special Forces or Marine Corps recon practicing stalking and avoidance? Native Americans trying to keep white interlopers off of their land? Pure Pranksters from the city? Many possibilities.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Did you hear? The Loch Ness Monster was spotted on open ground heading for the ocean. It seems that it had grown so big it had consumed all of the fish in the lake.
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bmacd
Trad climber
British Columbia
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Russian hoax. Wax dummy
Us forest service ranger creates miniature model and photographs it
Kentucky hoax - photoshop
Michigan Man finds something looking in his window and draws an image. Hoaxed again
Boy meets bigfoot - photoshop job on a stump
Robert Bateman Hoax passed off as "art"
Just leaving on a weekend trip to photograph the Easter bunny, wish me luck, I know he's out there ....
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bmacd
Trad climber
British Columbia
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Another Bigfoot picture
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Ray Olson
Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California
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to clear up any confusion re: my comment on
"Messner being wrong".
He took the subject as credible to the extent
he spent time in the field, over the span of 11 years looking.
Please remember who we're talking about here.
How was he wrong about that?
Yes, he felt it was/is a rare and endagered type of Asiatic
black bear - a fascinating creature.
Still, there have been well funded expeditions composed of
informed and educated people, who have gone to the region
and have continued the search for the Yeit of myth/legend.
Clearly, they think its a more credible subject than "santa clause".
And, they have continued to find bits and pieces of interesting
evidence. Not proof, not with the technology of today.
But how about the technology of tomorrow?
Look at how our concepts of things have changed in the
last 50 years...pretty staggering.
Pretty sure, if I went back to 1964, walked up to my old
man while he was trying to kick start his Duo Glide, and
told him what I would be doing with a small black box
that's fits in the palm of my hand (a computer called a
G! smartphone) he would have looked at me with his
bright blue eyes and said "bullshit!".
What will the next 50 years bring?
have a great day everyone!
:-)
Ray
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quietpartner
Trad climber
Moantannah
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I'm a BF skeptic because a buddy, years ago, donned an ape suit with round road reflectors for eyes and stood at night beside highways in Utah.
Drivers' reactions were amazing, rumors flying high and wild for a time.
Then he asked a sheriff's deputy (while outta the suit) what he'd do if the deputy saw BF. "We're supposed to bring him in, but I'd probably shoot him."
My buddy instantly stopped posing.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Sasquatch=herbivore, and there's no shortage of foliage to eat where it hangs out. (If it did hang out)
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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BC has pretty much any kind of climate you can think of. The province is huge - stretching 750 miles N-S and 500 miles E-W. The climate in the SW is pretty much identical to the climate in NW Washington -- just think of Seattle -- while up in the North east your spit freezes before it hits the ground in the winter.
There is temperate rainforest in the Southwest, big mountains in many ranges, a variety of deserts, farmland, ranchland, vineyards, fruit orchards... All kinds of large animals live there. Several kinds of bears, moose, elk, deer, caribou. Wolves and coyotes. Various cats including mountain lions, lynx, bobcats... Plus of course hundreds of kinds of smaller mammals. None of them flies down to Phoenix for the winter, and all of them manage to find plenty of food.
Of course, Canadians are so deluded they think their heathcare system is good and their economy sound, so trusting one of them (i.e. me) to know anything about their own climate and geography is probably silly.
Just go on assuming it's all arctic wasteland, barren of food and uninhabitable except for a few days in late July.
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bmacd
Trad climber
British Columbia
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Coastal BC is a very survivable habitat. Near the ocean the snow rarely stay for more than a few days. The intertidal zone is rich in shellfish.
Albert Ostman described Sasquatch sleeping under blankets woven from moss and bark after returning from his epic "Kidnapped by bigfoot" experience in 1924 While on a prospecting trip in Bute Inlet BC. The tale is a good adventure read and can be found under the "classics" section on http://www.bigfootencounters.com/ - his observations have proven to be not unique relative to reports that come in to this very day...
Dr Robert Allley, an athropologist at the Univeristy in Ketchikan Alaska, whom has just received my entire bigfoot hair sample collection, wrote an excellent book about Sasquatch encounters along the Alaskan coast, the title is "Raincoast Sasquatch"
If the westcoast Indians were able to survive for centuries along the coast here, it's no stretch in my mind that a Sasquatch could as well.
Dr Alley called me today to let me know the samples are going to California when he is done with them, to be further analyzed by Dave Paulides, a forensic detective with access to a DNA lab down there in California near Humbolt county I think. Paulides has authored 2 books on Sasquatch, "The Hoopa Project" and more recently "Tribal Bigfoot"
This is the video of the, 7 foot high chain link fence topped by barb wire where I retrieved the hairs from in January of 2007. The gravel slope beyond yielded the tracks which are also shown in the video. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGbgUMIodlM
I could return to this same spot in Sechelt, BC, and easily harvest more samples this winter. I'll wait for the assessment results before I do though.
The multiple additional dimensions argument, comprising a separate or alternate, reality set from ours could be used to explain away every hole in the sieve of the Sasquatch mystery.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Ray-
Good point. However, don't forget the commercial angle to the yeti. Every expedition means more dollars for the Sherpas. They have a vested interest in keeping the legend going. Sasquatch legendeers less so at this point in time.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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One thing not discussed on this thread but on another, is the idea that these stories could have a historical basis. Neanderthal lived in Europe until 27,000 years ago and there was a lot of variety among modern humans in China also. Then there's the just discovered "hobbits" of Indonesia - Homo floresiensis, and finally, Kennewick man in Oregon - a Caucasian skeleton tested at 11,000 years ago.
Could not the stories of Sasquatch have originated with invasions of small groups of hairy and light colored Caucasians similar to Kennewick man, coming down the coast from the Bering Strait? The Ainu of eastern Siberia and northern Japan fit that description quite well and many think that's who the Kennewick man was.
Since an arrow head was found between his ribs, we can conclude Kennewick wasn't welcomed by the locals. The fact that Sasquatch rumors are along the coast and don't go further south than California, would be consistent with migrations from Alaska southward. Also, given the wet climate and dense forests where they're said to be, fossils would be extremely rare.
Later, after all Caucasian invaders had been wiped out, the legend of their hairiness, bad smells, and strength compared to Native Americans could have endured, and become the explanation for eveything unknown or unexplained along the coast.
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bmacd
Trad climber
British Columbia
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Postulating that bigfoots origin is an early species of modern man, whom still survives today is plausible in my mind. Certainly the DNA results so far, do support that kind of thinking as they have been found to be almost indistinguishable from modern humans
I believe I read it was thought that neanderthal types survived and thrived until the early 20-th century in remote reaches of Russia and Mongolia.
In evolution, I would think, it would not be direct successions, but more like parallel branching tree of evolving species.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Following LEB's suggestion, and using shamanistic reasoning, it could be the ghosts of the Caucasian invaders are haunting the west coast woods. It would be interesting to have Native shamans see if they could go into trance and locate the dimension beyond the earth where these creatures also dwell. According to shamanistic reasoning, they could then apologize for wiping them out and negotiate a cease fire.
I've seen this done in Nepal with families said to be haunted by unknown forces which shamans diagnosed as the ghosts of tribal Nepalis who were displaced by the high caste Hindu invasions. For them it worked.
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Srbphoto
Trad climber
Kennewick wa
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Jan- Kennewick is in SE Washington. There is actually some debate if it is really caucasoid.
"Public interest, debate, and controversy began when an independent archaeologist, working on contract to the Kennewick coroner, decided the bones were ancient but might not be Native American. He described them as "Caucasoid" and sent a piece of bone to a laboratory to be dated. The final date indicated an age of 9,000 years, making Kennewick Man one of the oldest and most complete skeletons found in the Americas. Subsequent tests of other bone samples showed the skeleton to be somewhere between 5650 and 9510 years old. But if it is true that these human remains are thousands of years old, and are not Native American, then who was Kennewick Man? This question raised a number of other questions that have put Kennewick Man "on trial" in the public eye."
http://www.washington.edu/burkemuseum/kman/
On the Burke Museum (they have the remains) page (the link above) the is a page titled "The Idea of Race". A short but interesting read about the idea of race.
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