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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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You would agree that both sides (left and right) are equally guilty of infecting info with personal bias, would you knott?
I would knott. Most scientists I know try damn hard not to "infect" their data with bias. Their political views wrt climate change arise from their findings, much more than the other way around -- most are not highly politicized people to begin with, although basic science in general has been pushed away by this faith-based regime.
When they find evidence that contradicts leading theories, they work hard to publish and understand that as well. I realize that many people who don't know these folks have no chance to watch or understand what they do, and imagine that science too follows the model of Fox News.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Whitey wrote:
Global warming deniers like shack remind me of Holocaust deniers.
Wow. I bet you wouldn't say that to his face.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Chiloe - I thought Matt was referring to the media, knott scientists.
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TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
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HDDJ - That is tooooo funny!
I guess we can expect to see more oil when we need it!
Talk about flawed logic!
BTW. You live out near JTree? I noticed that there is a massive wind farm just to the west a few miles. Yet only 5 or 10% of the windmills were turning. What's with that?
Same was true near Yosemite.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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I know exactly who shack is and I would say that to his face.
You don't happen to be close enough to do so, do you?
I'd pay money to see it, as long as I was allowed to film....
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WBraun
climber
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hey Whitey
Maybe try a little to get off your tough guy platform. You are just going to alienate most people here and you'll garner very little respect for any of your posts.
People will only tend to see you as an assh'le instead of what you're really aiming for.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Chiloe - I thought Matt was referring to the media, knott scientists.
Dunno who Matt had in mind, but again, good science reporters -- Andy Revkin of NYT comes to mind -- try hard to hear and understand the scientists. This is no small effort because what scientists often say is some version of "...no, it's more complicated than that."
Sure there are less conscientious reporters too. I've been interviewed by some, one from a Real Famous Paper, who had their story line all figured out and just needed three quotes to "prove" their thesis.
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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Pfffft.
Really Whitey? You know me? (I doubt it)
Then you'd know that I don't deny Global Warming is happening.
You'd also know that the cause is the real question.
If you know me so well, How many guns are on my CCW?
Hahaha!
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Shack
Big Wall climber
Reno NV
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It was a joke Whitey, knott intended to scare.
But if you must know...
More than you can count on three hands.(including an Uzi & Glock 19)
BTW: You haven't met me. Never been to the Valley with Bryan.
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TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Chiloe raises a "dirty little secret"...
The average news story you read is frequently a digest of some press release. The average to slightly above average reporter will often call a source, e.g. the spokesperson listed in the press release for a "quote". Or he may rely on some stock sources for comments. Yup - they want a quote that won't require rewriting their whole story. Yup - they have a deadline. Yup - they are limited on how long the story can be. Yup - the editor may insist that the story be dumbed down, cut, etc.
Also the average reported who may write "technical" stories, often would do well below average on a high school physics, chemistry or biology final exam.
The reporters who truly have an understanding of the subject probably are distinguishable by scientists, but not the general public.
I am not a big fan of the NY Times, but their reporters usually have a decent enough background in their subjects to write accurately. Same also for Science magazine, etc. But forget Popular Science, etc.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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I love the Glock 19! It is sooooo cute!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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I love the Glock 19! It is sooooo cute!
Like a brick.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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A 595 g / 20.99 oz (unloaded) brick?
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jstan
climber
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Matt:
I would direct your attention to the last exchange between Whitey and Werner. There is listening going on here.
Many of the windmills constructed just west of Palm Springs were built during the time tax advantages were granted for such installations. Most of them are gone now as they were very inefficient( output versus upkeep) compared to modern technology. I seldom if ever see any of those in operation. Often you will see only a portion of the mills in a particular stand operating. Whether it is true there I can't say, but I do know the algorithms for maximizing output in a field are quite sophisticated with the decisions depending upon wind velocity, and wind shadow in the field.
Three years ago a firm named Clipper Windpower in Carpenteria, just south of SB had, I believe, about a dozen employees. It now has 250, including aerodynamic engineers among other technical specialties. I have heard also they are developing a base in Europe. Hopefully they will not be bought out by one of the European companies now intent on monopolizing alternative energy. Their towers are as high as 450 feet,and the power plant weighs in the range from ten to twenty tons. I have seen a picture taken inside one of these modules. In it the man looked pretty darn small.
We went to a series of lectures here in SB given by nobelists and other ordinary people aimed at making the area "Fossil Free by 33". Normally I would not pay too much attention to stuff like this. But I hate to tell you. I was the only person there not wearing stone washed jeans. Since those lectures the Air Force, for the first time, has begun to listen to firms wanting to exploit the wind at Point Reyes, potentially one of the highest return sites in the US. That first interest by the Air Force actually came before the midterm election so one would expect much further interest now. It will take time assuredly as there are important questions to be answered.
Anders mentioned Facelift. Before I am marginalized as being an extremist( what rock climber isn't?) I want to mention I got into going more seriously carless because of Cathy who rides 22 miles each day to work. She is the last person in the US making her product so there are customers on the phone all day long who need their own completely new product, literally tomorrow. She says the ride is the only thing that allows her to keep things in perspective. On the way up to Facelift I was wandering around in Merced in the dark trying to find the motel when a very kind lady gave me a ride. When I mentioned what climbers were doing in Yosemite she could not say enough good things about the effort.
Here is my point. I had no idea what it would be like to make this change. You just never know. I found when I got out of the car I began running into people who are very interested in making things better. There is tremendous support out there and a lot of hope. Get out of that tin can and my guess is you too will run into it.
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GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
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You would agree that both sides (left and right) are equally guilty of infecting [media] info with personal bias, would you knott?
I would knott agree with this.
In scientific studies on media articles, a clear bias has been found. The media has much more language calling into question both global warming in general and also the anthropogenic nature of it, than do the scientific articles and lectures that that media is reporting.
Some of this may be the desire in the media to provide a "balanced" story. So if a study comes out providing new evidence for the severity of global warming gasses, in the report of that study, the media may want to give an "alternate" perspective in order to not appear to be taking sides.
This well-meaning but unfortunate intention is, I believe, fostering an incorrect sense in the general population of the current state of the science.
GO
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jstan writes:
"...the windmills constructed just west of Palm Springs were built during the time tax advantages were granted for such installations. Most of them are gone now"
Haven't been there in a while, have you?
There are more windmills there than there have ever been. I remember when there weren't any. Then there was one. Then three.
There are at least a thousand there right now.
And on very windy days, most of them are spinning.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 1, 2007 - 09:05pm PT
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225 posts
a little austrian sabre rattling
Anybody converted????
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TradIsGood
Happy and Healthy climber
the Gunks end of the country
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I was there a year ago 3 weeks from now. 1 in 10 were spinning. Most were KNOTT moving at all.
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Mimi
climber
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Isn't Tehachapi Pass still covered with windmills or is this the area you're referring to?
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paganmonkeyboy
Trad climber
the blighted lands of hatu
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"Anybody converted????"
no, but i did look at some glocks just now...
(those taurus 1911s frikin are hard to come by ron - but even the ss is only 550 new...)
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