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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Done the NDG three times and it was never anything but trivial.
Certainly WAY less traumatic than the Sentinel descent in the dark.
Rapping anything (and more so with a rap of this length) opens you to a higher percentage of failure and the consequences are hardly ever just injury.
Hiking... not so much.
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chiindi
Big Wall climber
Lakeview, OR
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I always came down (walked) North Dome gully. Even in the dark it's safer!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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The route to the top of Washington Column from the top of the Arches is clear enough, and has been for decades. During Labor Day weekend in 1974, an ordinary tourist started from the top of North Dome and somehow ended up on that climber's trail. He followed it toward the Arches and arrived at the rim just as we finished the "twenty-degree slimy slab" crossing at the top. He asked "Does this trail lead to the Valley floor?" We told him to take another couple of steps -- carefully. He made his way down by following us down North Dome Gully.
In fairness, North Dome Gully has racked up its own impressive list of casualties over the years, so I don't blame a noob choosing a rap over a hike (with third or fourth class sections) with a reputation for causing trouble to those unfamiliar.
I just wish Cody didn't bring the rappel route so fully into our consciousness. His was the first fatality of a Fresno climber in Yosemite - that I remember, anyway - since Irving Smith fell from the Lost Arrow Notch almost 55 years ago.
John
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sprout
Trad climber
clovis, ca
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Feb 18, 2015 - 11:22am PT
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I climbed with Cody a lot - including the 3 Saturdays before that fateful Sunday. He was not a noob and made an unfortunate mistake. My first time up the route included a 6 hour descent in the dark - a true learning experience as several have pointed out. I've since done the route a dozen or more times and have always rappelled.
It is unfortunate to read through this thread and see so many joking and distracting from those that have been impacted and honestly want to see if something can or should be done. We're a community and supertopo should be a place people can go for help, information, and resources. My last post here got flamed and I was asking an honest question I didn't know. Yes a lot of noobs go up the route. Yes a lot get stuck and are in over their heads. So maybe that should be addressed instead?
Everything in this thread dances around the concept that the landscape of climbing is changing - more gyms, more noobs, less experienced climbers, easier access, bigger crowds. Exposure to climbing is at all new levels - recent Dawn wall coverage, climbing gyms opening every month (3-4 in the last year just in California with 2+ announced and under construction!). The access fund has recognized this and is currently on an educational tour to try to teach all these new people how to act outside and LNT. They don't know how! And a strong contingency of those who do, sit here laughing and ignoring instead of getting out there and being that mentor most of us had when we all learned. How many are willing to try to make a difference? Something like going into a gym and being that mentor. Lots of experienced and skilled members of the climbing community here.
+1 for cleaning up the tat and standardizing the rappel distances.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Feb 18, 2015 - 01:03pm PT
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Sprout, I was responding to a comment up thread suggesting that someone unfamiliar with North Dome Gully would have a difficult time making it to the top of the Column from the top of the Arches. Unfortunately, my wording makes it sound like I thought Cody was a newcomer, which I knew he was not.
My bad.
John
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Feb 18, 2015 - 01:13pm PT
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The infamous NDG... First time I did it was about 13ish years ago. I had just started climbing and we didn't want to do the RA raps. Plus we had read on the taco that you really didn't do RA unless you did the gulley. So I posted here or email about the gulley. DMT kindly sent me a link to some story of him and Angus? in the gulley long ago. The advice I took away was "if you don't know your in the gulley you aren't - keep going"
It's not hard to find. If you don't think you're there you haven't gone far enough along the rim JUST KEEP GOING UNTIL YOU'RE THERE!
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Radish
Trad climber
SeKi, California
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 18, 2015 - 01:14pm PT
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I've conveyed interest to climbski2 to help in whatever the plan is to this issue, if any. I can get some others too. First though we need to figure out what it is that needs to be done. Then to come up with a weekend or weekday to do it. I would have to drive a couple of hours. I think mentoring is a great idea even though there is some great info out there. Just seeing it done face to face is the best. Thanks for all the input....
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Rosamond
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Feb 18, 2015 - 03:40pm PT
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Of the probably 50 times I've done Royal Arches, I only rapped it once. And during that rap, my girlfriend and I recovered somebody's long, thin rappel line, that had become snagged in those trees on the 2nd or 3rd rap. We took it on down, brought it over to SAR camp, and sure enough; one of the boys from SAR had gotten it stuck, spent the night out, and even ended up being helo'd off the rap route. I decided that doing a gazillion rappels on a rap route that ran through vegetation, over terraces with rubble on them, etc, was not only slower, but had a way bigger risk profile to it than just jogging over to north dome gully and walking down. Like everybody else, I've seen many dozens of newbies' headlamps high up on that rap route, in the dark, spending half or all of the night getting down. It's an attractive nuisance. My suggestion? YOSAR would have far fewer incidents and a few less fatalities if we just put some effort into making the North Dome descent the standard, easy to find way to get down off that route. I reckon that a 2nd bolt (OH, HORRORS!!!) on the wet pine needle exit pitch would make it more attractive to tired beginners to go for the jungle and the North Dome walkoff, especially in the spring.
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Onewhowalksonrocks
Mountain climber
Ventura
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Feb 18, 2015 - 03:58pm PT
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I don't why I am posting this. Anything worth wild has already been said.
I climbed RA many times. Only rappeled the rap route once. Found it to be a waste of time.
My favorite trip up was to start at 3 pm with the plan to camp on the rim. Mid summer this was a blast. Campfire, good food,booze and great views.
If you need to dumb down a climb so you can do it. You shouldn't be on that climb.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Feb 18, 2015 - 04:10pm PT
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I reckon that a 2nd bolt (OH, HORRORS!!!) on the wet pine needle exit pitch would make it more attractive to tired beginners to go for the jungle and the North Dome walkoff, especially in the spring.
All they need to do is downclimb a few feet from the first bolt to a long ledge traverse across then go up if they want to skip the pine needles.
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WBraun
climber
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Feb 18, 2015 - 04:19pm PT
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YOSAR would have far fewer incidents and a few less fatalities if we just put some effort into making the North Dome descent the standard,
You are deluded to what causes accidents and fatalities.
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kev
climber
A pile of dirt.
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Feb 18, 2015 - 05:06pm PT
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Werner,
I'm 100% sure you've got a lot of data/experience about what causes accidents. Care to share some of it? I'm genuinely curious - no BS. Like top 5 causes for noobs, "mid experienced" (whatever the fuk that is), and very experienced.
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Oscar
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Feb 18, 2015 - 08:16pm PT
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What about Christmas lights?
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LuckyNeck
Trad climber
the basement of Lou's Tavern
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Feb 18, 2015 - 10:03pm PT
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I'm super curious who the f*#k you are Sprout. Claiming you climbed with Cody alot...
Best i can figure by your posts, thats flat out not true. I know who he was climbing with the day saturday before he passed, and it wasn't you.
EDIT: my bad duder. It's okay Internet. Me and sprout talked it over, and I'm still the idiot. He's not a liar, I'm simply forgetful (and usually only on the dang forum while intoxicated.) oh what? Like the rest of you aren't!?
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Rosamond
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Feb 19, 2015 - 12:23pm PT
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Werner, you're the old YOSAR hand here. I'm always interested in your thoughts. Fill me in on the errors of my delusions, because from where I sit, I figure that it's a higher risk profile for someone who's a novice climber to do 10+ raps down that rap route, often in the dark, with the trees grabbing ropes and whatnot, than it would be if we just marked the ND gully, and maybe even left a short fixed line or 3 over there. Not any different than having fixed lines on the death slabs. A bivy on the rim or even in the ND gully itself leaves someone in a less risky situation than on the wall if foul weather blows in. I'm not trying to be a smartass or an argumentative dick. And I know that more than a few epics and even a fatality or 3 have occurred on the ND gully. I know I screwed up that descent when I was 16, on my 1st lap on the thing, back in the days of the rotten log. But that rap route just seems like it causes more than its fair share of epics, too. I haven't kept track of the number of accidents or fatalities on each one, but Hartouni's list above in this thread claims there've been more ANAM worthy incidents on the rap route than the ND gully, over the period of years he listed. You have that data at your fingertips. I'm listening. And I'm not a fan of either chopping or reflectorizing the rap route. They wanna play grownup games, they're gonna hafta act like a grownup. But for me, it just seems both faster and safer to do the gully.
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LearningTrad
Trad climber
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Feb 19, 2015 - 01:32pm PT
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Feb 19, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
Jesus climbing has become pussified beyond repair. What's next talk of installing a water line up the nose so you can fill a bottle at every belay.
Could they even do that? Seems like it would require a lot of pressure.
What's next??? NPS issued tiny binoculars, so you could more easily watch other supertopans climb at the crag and not introduce yourself? Yikes!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Feb 19, 2015 - 01:38pm PT
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Feb 19, 2015 - 12:35pm PT
Jesus climbing has become pussified beyond repair. What's next talk of installing a water line up the nose so you can fill a bottle at every belay.
Could they even do that? Seems like it would require a lot of pressure.
0.4335 psi per ft or approx. 70 psi per pitch.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Feb 19, 2015 - 01:45pm PT
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Here's an idea. Sell your sh#t and go play golf.
I just missed the opportunity to do both on the Arches the first time I was on it. Unfortunately for me, the purists got the Ahwahnee to remove its pitch and putt course before my first attempt on the Arches. Otherwise, the Jungle would have made an excellent tee area for one of the world's most unique par 3's. I know my generation of climbers (including, I'm ashamed to say, me) held golf in various degrees of contempt, but I wonder if any enterprising old timer gave the "Drive the Arches" challenge a try.
John
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melski
Trad climber
bytheriver
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the logic of rapping eludes me,,sooo much sh#t to get hung on,and not a very staight line,,I;d vote for making NDG easyer to find in the dark,,,
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