Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:56pm PT
|
I got your long view.
I'm trying to kick Steve's ass in darts but I keep checking out the ST to remain engaged in the fray. That's okay, he's chowing on killer nachos fresh from the oven.
Anyway, Dr. F, BS on your tax proposal. And why is it fair to suck us all dry for our own government's gross mismanagement? Screw that! With proper governance and budget management with cuts in spending, we can do it without ruining our economy through unnecessary taxation.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:59pm PT
|
And her part about beliefs? what is that about?
For 25 years, I've watched science illiteracy in its many forms of expression and I've watched antiquated theological beliefs (maintained by Abrahamic religious institutions) stand in the way of democratic progress.
As you know, I think we're about the same age, it's not just a recent development. Anyone who thinks so might be a citizen of the United States of Amnesia. Recall Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson. Others.
What you believe matters. (What you hold in your head matters.) It determines how you organize your life and lead your life. Maybe someday they'll have junior high and high school courses that cover this. As part of "Human Functioning." Maybe.
In the meantime, I am grateful for being born in America not Mali or Pakistan where beliefs REALLY matter too.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:06pm PT
|
So, with ALL that postulating & sh#t, have you fuckers actually DONE anything?
Uh, no.
Here's the lesson...Shut the fuck up & DO SOMETHING!!!!!6!!
Talk is cheap. The Infernonets should demonstrate that, eminently...
Whisky costs money. You got any? No? Then shut the F*#k up.
As always...Fix it or Fuck it...Whining just paints you as a pussy loser(in nature...Lunch)What'll it be, bitch?
BTW, F*#k you, Wesspiss.
DIE!
DIE!
DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:08pm PT
|
That won't solve the problem if we don't cut spending.
Yep! But what are we going to cut? Clearly cutting education spending will make the biggest difference... and be the best over the long term. Or we could get rid of the entitlement programs for old people. As long as we don't touch corporate welfare and military funding cuz, well, you know capitalism and safety from those who hate capitalism and all that.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:11pm PT
|
High Sugar Load, of course beliefs matter. You're implying that I must declare my personal beliefs in order to have a valid opinion about certain ideas? May I remind you that we are engaged in a fully public yet somehow nameless, faceless, anonymous, duplicitous, obfuscative and weasley virtual environment. I will say this, without virtues and a code of morality, a society will not function in a healthy and efficient manner. This goes way back.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:12pm PT
|
Mimi,
We have to face the awful truth. We are the government. We are the special interests.
I heard Alan Simpson talking about this, and that guy is hilarious. He spoke that line I stole above. In the new Republican Party you have a guy with a shank in line behind you if you don't snap to.
He said that Bowles' was getting hammered on the Simpson/Bowles agreement from the AARP over changes in Medicare and Social Security, although anyone with a calculator could fix them.
Then Simpson said that all of the Republicans had sold their souls to Grover Norquist over taxes.
End result? Congress is kinda like a puppet show and the puppeteers are the lobbyists for the special interests, as kind as they may sound, such as the AARP.
We gotta raise taxes and cut spending. You can't do it with just one.
The most hysterical thing was Romney insisting on another tax cut. Geez. That song got old back in the disco days.
|
|
drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:12pm PT
|
Dang.
I believe in ghosts and evolution.
Happy new year from Tucson you guys.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:12pm PT
|
I believe Donini’s argument here was that it is important that people believe in evolution. Let’s play a devil’s advocate and say that it is not true. What difference does it make what you believe in? Everybody on this world is looking for happiness and if your believes make you happy, what is the problem? There are hundreds of millions of people on this planet that have never heard about evolution and they are perfectly fine. Right?
Several problems with this argument.
First, most of those hundreds of millions are actually billions, and they live in abject poverty, with a life expectency of under 25 years at birth, and most die horrible deaths, and live most of their lives in starvation. I don't call that fine.
What happens to them, and those that come after them, is somewhat dependent upon what we do.
The way out of the quagmire is through science and technology. Not through prayer. Not through working harder gathering rocks. technologic advancements.
It means successful accumulation of education in a culture-wide scale.
When there is wide-spread rejection of science....even the CONCEPT of science....that is, the method of developing a hypothesis, coming up with a way to test it, actually doing so, evaluating the results and validating the truth of the theory, then using it to predict future outcomes.....then those people have lost that power, and effectively have been reduced to a hunter-gatherer society, dependent upon their fellows for technology. Those Americans have become third world.
They are striving for the level of the mennonites.
|
|
Captain...or Skully
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:14pm PT
|
Ain't worth it. F*#k you in the neck with a coarse spoon, WesCHRISTAsshole.
cheers?
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:24pm PT
|
That jerry Coyne argument is so full of holes its almost ridiculous. He makes unsupported suppositions, such as the increase in books supporting the notion that science and religion are compatible is because of the rise of atheism. Most atheist are science based people, and so supposedly religions want to take charge of science so that atheism won't continue to rise. He completely fails to examine any other hypothesis, and just jumps to this conclusion.
He sounds smart, but he fails as a scientist. He fails to even discuss how polls can be so utterly screwed up because the questions are asked in a leading manner. We have a wonderful example of that from the recent election. Only one pollster got the outcome of the election nearly completely correct, and many many so called important pollsters completely missed the boat.
An example of how those polls could be screwed up is if you asked someone if they believed man evolved from an ape or if they believe that God created them. Most religious people I know would say they God created them. The pollster could then make the argument that these people did not believe in evolution, which would not be true. He makes supposition after supposition without actually supporting anything. He is basically "preaching to the choir", which is also one of the main problems of modern religion. His "God" is Science and he is intolerant of anything that can't be "proven" by means that he can understand. That intolerance is no different from the intolerance of many religious people.
What a sad state of affairs man has come to.
You are correct that man is still extremely ignorant. God save us from men like Jerry coyne.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:26pm PT
|
And why is it fair to suck us all dry for our own government's gross mismanagement?
This reminds me of the time when we had the Savings and Loans crisis some years back, and they interviewed these people about how the bailout (which had to occur, or everyone would lose their savings) should be paid for.
I remember one person to this day:
"The taxpayers should NOT pay for this, the GOVT should pay for it".
???????????
Why is it fair? Because it is OUR GOVT, and OUR COUNTRY.
The same reason that the Greeks should pay for the debts their gov't ran up, the Spaniards should pay for the debts their gov't ran up, the Icelanders for the debts THEIR gov't ran up.
WHO do YOU think should pay for the Greeks, Spaniards, and Icelanders?
We voted for them, it was our Gov't who spent the money, it is OUR debt, and WE owe it.
It is the HIGHEST LEVEL of ENTITLEMENT to think that SOMEONE ELSE is responsible to take care of that debt!
WE owe that money. By the way, the number one source of those funds are American citizens and companies.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:28pm PT
|
John M,
Just one question: Are you drunk?
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:31pm PT
|
And why is it fair to suck us all dry for our own government's gross mismanagement?
good question, it is NOT fair
which brings us to the next question:
given that Republican Administrations are directly responsible for by FAR the most of the spending and increases in the national debt, why then would YOU vote Republican?
oh wait, I remember, factual denial, misinformation, no intellectual curiosity to find out
Over 2/3 of our national debt was added by Republicans
|
|
John M
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:33pm PT
|
HfCS. I have no doubt that you would not ask that question to my face. You and I have gone round and round in the past. I believe you are a fool. You believe that I am a fool.
Why don't we leave it at that?
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:36pm PT
|
I don't know you. I don't recall even once going around with you.
Refresh my memory. As for asking you if you're drunk to your face,
believe you me, I'd have no problem whatsoever. Nada. Zilch.
Your post is a rambling nothing.
Refresh my memory. Any hands-on science in your background?
Is science just another ideology, is that it? What makes you tick?
I believe you are a fool. You believe that I am a fool.
Anyone know this man's politics? I don't know if he's a fool,
I don't know him, I just know his latest post was foolish.
.....
C'mon, Skully, knock that off - that page stretching sh!t. ;)
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:37pm PT
|
Norton, that graph can be challenged I'm sure. Stick to dialogue please.
The problem is if we shrunk government, aka, cut spending, there would be a lag before the private sector really got going again to absorb these unemployed people. And then you have the issue of dealing with government employees at all as they aren't always keen on working in a much more competitive private sector.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 10:41pm PT
|
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!