Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2012 - 01:59pm PT
|
BDoog..let me provide some background for Go B and some differences to the Qur'an. I am sure he does not know and it might be good info for others:
I think he is getting at is the God of Muhammad The God of the Bible and do Muslims and Christians worship the same God?
A) It is a matter of Linguistics, for some this is All there is to it. Note though that both Christians and Jews settled in Arabia long before the time of Muhammad. There are references to Jewish dietary laws and biblical verses and allusions to biblical verses verses or passages in the Qur'an.
Allah the theos and elohim/el/eloah....Allah was in use in pre-Isamic times. Some say it referred to the moon god worshipped in pre-Islam Arabia. More likely, allah comes from the Syriac alah and the Aramaic elah. Allah was used as a term for "God" by Arab's, Jews and Christians before the time of Muhammad and there is later evidence ms. evidence of Arabian OT and NT translations using the Arabic Allah for "God".
Both Muslims and Christians hold that only one God exits... in comes down down quickly before I loose more people that there is a Referent and sense...Predicates define who "God" is and what"God" has done. Ok here it is...Both True Qur'anic Muslims, and true Biblical Christinas do not act as though you can pour any content into the word Allah or T=theos or elohim, nor do they believe that one can pour any content into the words. The Qur'an and the Bible teach that one cannot, should not, must not do this either. ..
Now for the crescendo...
The Qur'an..Allah is strictly "one" one without a second, one person, bible different
Say not Trinity: Desist "Sura" 4:171
Jesus is only a prophet "For God is one God: Glory be to Him: far exalted is he above having a son. Sura 4:171
Jesus was not crucified on the cross, they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them..Sura 157.
Some say that the Qur'an affirms the virgin birth. But is does not because the predicates concerning the virgin birth in the Qur'an and in the Bible are different. ..
I could go on but now it gets really heated and probably would not add to this discussion but to only incite and polarize sides.
|
|
Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2012 - 02:09pm PT
|
There is only one true GOD (The Trinity) -- The GOD above all others (YHWY and YESHUA). But there are many GODs. Even the Bible says so.
Isn't it funny how some people can't get there head around the idea that there is more than just us out there. That there is more intelligent life out there. And this intelligent life or intelligent spirits or entities are far more advanced than we are.
These people take on a idealogical fixed-in-stone view that there is no GOD or GODs out there. They point to Evolution all happening on its own without a designer as evidence (the evidence doesn't suggest this, but they ignore the evidence contrary to their wishful view), and therefore proof positive that GOD doesn't exist or GODs don't exist.
Yet, there are people in positions of power in government and other institutions that not only know that GOD exists or GODs exist, but that they even actively worship and allow themselves to be manipulated by GOD's enemies -- Lucifer and his host of Fallen Angels. Those into the occult and all of it's many factions and practices. They not only know that GOD or GODs exist, they hate the one true GOD and purposefully rebel against GOD and serve their master and the enemy of GOD, Lucifer, the god of this world. And sometimes they don't even hide it.
So you have those who know that GOD is indeed real, and believe, and have faith and worship GOD. Those of Faith.
Then you have those who know that GOD is indeed real, but choose to purposefully rebel against GOD, and hate GOD, and choose to go with GOD's enemy and all who rebel against GOD. Those who have Faith, but who rebel against GOD.
Then you have those who aren't really sure what to believe, whether GOD exists or not. The Agnostics. Those who are clueless and can't make up their mind just yet one way or the other.
Then you have those who say and believe that GOD or GODs don't exist, and never did and never will. The Atheists. These are those who have their heads buried in the sand, with their eyes closed, and their fingers in their ears. All the evidence in the World seems to not matter. They don't want GOD to exist, so they believe he never has or that he ever will. It is willful ignorance.
|
|
WBraun
climber
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
|
Even the Bible says so.
Klimmer
Well that's not good enough alone.
The atheist, agnostic, modern material science, has not seen God according to their realizations.
So you just want them to agree to blind faith on your words here alone?
Never gonna work that way.
They must have absolute proof.
Summon Bonnum or the ultimate original source of all energies ......
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2012 - 02:21pm PT
|
The question to ask yourself is, do you believe that at one point a talking snake existed?
|
|
Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2012 - 03:05pm PT
|
do you believe that at one point a talking snake existed?
Ever seen the film Bruno?
|
|
fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2012 - 10:15pm PT
|
And again I mean no offense to anyone's beliefs as I am simply curious of how those who truly believe or "know" that their version of God is the right one when so many disparities exist just on our own tiny planet. Rather than compare and contrast Christianity with Islam, take it back 3000 years and compare Christianity with the Egyptian pantheon. There were advanced civilizations way back then just as convinced Apollo really did load up his chariot with the sun and drive it across the sky. I'm sure people back then were killing each other over such critical differences such as were there 4 horses or 2 pulling the load. Nothing has changed, just the stories.
I suppose I should extend that question to athiests as well. How can you absolutely "know" there is no God in a universe with so many yet unexplained wonders?
The older I get the more I realize I don't "know" a goddamn thing.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2012 - 10:42pm PT
|
Greg
The "talking serpent". Dude, did anyone think that we would have cell phones, internet, and yadayada could go on forever. What's so crazy about snake talk?
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2012 - 10:49pm PT
|
Coz, don't think I ever ever said that or did that. Pretty much all I express here is that jesus is my best friend. My friend.....don't try to push my beliefs on anyone. Cheers and miss seeing you. Haven't been to Josh in forever. Hope to see you at the Gordo fest. lynnie
|
|
Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2012 - 11:02pm PT
|
"G"od vs. "g"od...there is only one "G"od...even the bible differentiates that.
|
|
Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
|
Mar 15, 2012 - 11:17pm PT
|
Hey Pat, you're of the Mormon faith no?
|
|
luggi
Trad climber
from the backseat of Jake& Elwood Blues car
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2012 - 12:28am PT
|
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Ok which one of ya lifted the rock?
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2012 - 04:40am PT
|
Because there has been no evidence of a talking snake ever existing, considering that it was supposed to have existed in the past.
Phones, cars are manmade inventions. Are you saying that in the past we invented a talking snake? That doesn't sound like the story I remember, pretty sure it was Satan talking through a snake.
Of course, perhaps snakes might evolve into a higher form of being that has mastered cogniscent thought and speech but, lacking hands, could never create out of matter the subtleties in their mind? Even millions of years ago these snakes could have existed, and just as Mankind developed a stable enough food supply and could begin banding as tribes and creating nations the Snakes were stomped out of existence, the clear second animal on the food chain to their warm-blooded brethren with Metacarpals?
Of course, the same book that claims existence of a talking snake also claims the world was created in seven days, men come back from the dead and kind of recommended rape.
I'm not saying there is no God, and Jesus was a total badass, but that story is bullsh#t. :)
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2012 - 04:45am PT
|
I really have no idea what this whole thread has been about, by the way. As an aside.
|
|
eeyonkee
Trad climber
Golden, CO
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2012 - 07:40am PT
|
Then you have those who say and believe that GOD or GODs don't exist, and never did and never will. The Atheists. These are those who have their heads buried in the sand, with their eyes closed, and their fingers in their ears. All the evidence in the World seems to not matter. They don't want GOD to exist, so they believe he never has or that he ever will. It is willful ignorance.
Since I'm one of them, let me tell you that you're about as off-base as you can be here. I don't not WANT God to exist. I merely think that it's silly to believe in him/her/it in the exact same way that it would be silly to believe in Apollo or Zeus. There's nothing really all that Active about this stand. It feels like breathing.
|
|
Truthdweller
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2012 - 09:34am PT
|
There it is again, little "g" god...thank God it aint referring to God.
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2012 - 09:46am PT
|
Lolli,
Hope... hehe... a Monthy Pyhonesque answer to that: I can stand the pain, I can do that, it's the hope I cannot stand, it's the hope that leaves me in despair...
The gospel of resignation... gelassenheit...
Among the men of action Don Quijote is a greater hero to me than God. I'm still not at the level of the Don, thank god. Though I think Jan, WBraun and Largo are.
|
|
Norwegian
Trad climber
Placerville, California
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2012 - 10:13am PT
|
navigating the spiritual gradient
is best done while intoxicated with
any agent other than fear.
down and up rise and fall higher and lower;
these maxims are irrelevant
upon a multi-dimensional fabric with infinite axis.
handbaskets are my preffered method of travel, here.
i'll combat any god who attempts to cast me judgement.
i'll gamble with the devil and take in myself all of his sin.
i'll breath rain into the desert
and very compliment her asse that appears to be an amusement park.
|
|
dirtbag
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2012 - 10:34am PT
|
Dirtbag 1:1 "Ye who thunpeth boreth the fukk out of me."
|
|
YoungGun
climber
North
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2012 - 10:34am PT
|
Song of Solomon 8:8: "We have a little sister, and she hath no breasts: what shall we do for our sister in the day when she shall be spoken for?"
Honestly, I don't see the point to posting strings of random bible verses. Most Christians seem incapable of holding a dialog, or doing much besides regurgitating little numbered aphorisms.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Mar 16, 2012 - 10:39am PT
|
Honestly, I don't see the point to posting strings of random bible verses.
I suspect the practice is intended to be Pavlovian.
The speaker's intention is to apply it to us but was something that was originally used on the speaker.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!