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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 18, 2011 - 08:24pm PT
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There really is only one relevant fact here, that no one seems to dispute: 1. The dog bit you. all the rest is details.
I think there are two other relevant facts that no one disputes:
2. The dog was off leash
3. Neither of the people that brought it to the crag was in a position to control it.
Not good. Dog's owner is lucky to get off without being sued.
Edit to add: I love dogs. I've never had a bad experience with a dog at a crag, and have had lots of good experiences. But unless someone is with the dog at all times, it should be left at home.
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NikDF
Trad climber
Bay area, CA
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Jan 18, 2011 - 09:01pm PT
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If a dog is human aggressive (or even dog aggressive), in any situation other than defending "their" human in an extreme scenario, that dog should never be let into public, and certainly not be let off leash. If that dog in turn bites someone without provocation, it should be put down. Sorry, but the risk is too high for a
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ncrockclimber
climber
NC
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Jan 18, 2011 - 09:25pm PT
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Samantha, I am so sorry to hear that you got bit. That sucks! I hope that you have a speedy recovery.
As a cautionary tale, I will throw in my $.02. I have what I consider to be a well behaved dog. He comes when called 80% of the time, usually follows basic commands and (with the notable exception which I will explain next) has a great disposition.
While climbing at the New River Gorge a few years ago, my pup nipped at another climber's pant leg / ankle. Up to this point, my pup had never showed aggression towards any person. Despite this, we never left him unattended and only took him climbing with us when we were with friends and either my wife or I could always sit with him. On the day he nipped the other climber we were in an alcove with multiple climbs, and sitting close to another group. The quarters were relatively tight, and everyone was loud, jovial and generally having a good time. For some reason, all of this made my pup nervous, and when one of the guys from the other group got close to my wife, my pup nipped at him.
My wife and I were mortified. We immediately got our dog away from everyone and made sure that the guy who had been bit was OK. He was. To his credit, he was incredibly cool, calm and understanding about the whole thing. He did not have to be, but he was really great about the incident. We packed up our stuff and called it a day. Since then, our dog seldom goes to the crag. We only take him if we are fairly certain we will be alone and even then pack a muzzle in case we do see folks. He is ALWAYS on a leash. ALWAYS.
My point in writing this is that dogs are... well they are dogs! Even the best ones are unpredictable and can, under the correct circumstances, be dangerous. The dude who my dog bit did nothing wrong. It was 100% our fault. In my dogs mind, he was probably protecting my wife. That does not excuse what happened. It just underscores the fact that even good dogs can do bad sh#t and that letting a dog run around unattended at the crag is irresponsible.
Again, best wishes to Samantha for a quick recovery.
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rlf
Trad climber
Josh, CA
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Jan 18, 2011 - 09:53pm PT
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I 100% with NC on this. The person who is giving Samantha sh#t is absolutely off base. Simple, the dog was off leash, the dog bit someone.
Despite how cute and cuddly fluffy may be, dogs still have instincts and will act upon them.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jan 18, 2011 - 10:02pm PT
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I was leaning on a chain link fence that was 48 inches tall , talking to this acquaintance at millcreek station....The german sheppard trotted towards me just as the owner was warning me about his dog...the shepard locked on to my forearm leaving a nice set of puncture wounds....This guy then tells me that he has a child care service and that the shepard runs loose with the kids....The nurse that was treating my puncture wounds was infuriated when she heard that this dog was allowed to be around 5 year-old kids as she had seen numerous kids with their faces shredded by out of control dogs....She said the fact that the dog had bitten people before made the dog a prime candidate for a dirt nap...eventually the dog was put to sleep because of it's biting habits...I would think that any dog owner would be very wary of this happening to their dog and keep a tight leash on their hound especially at a crag...
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
The Illuminati -- S.P.E.C.T.R.E. Division
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Jan 18, 2011 - 10:07pm PT
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I'm with Ron in wondering if there isn't more (a lot more) to this story? It seems quite a "coincidence" that ex'es where involved. As Ron said, dogs pick up on things, and I wonder whether bad vibes put out by the dog owner and partner and/or the victim may have contributed. I also still wonder if the dog was aggressive from the beginning and just how aggressively the victim "pushed" the dog away.
The more I hear about this, the more I wonder if the lesson here is that exes who are not on good terms should just stay away from each other. Poor dog may just have ended up in an ex-lovers' spat.
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blackbird
Trad climber
the flat water trails...
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2011 - 10:38pm PT
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Bernie is still available for your cuddly cougar (Abby)..... but he's a rescue and........he BITES! Thanks, al! I'll let AbbyTheFruitBatCougar know... but she'll likely give Bernie a run for his money b/c she's a rescue, too!
The more I hear about this, the more I wonder if the lesson here is that exes who are not on good terms should just stay away from each other. Poor dog may just have ended up in an ex-lovers' spat. And NOW you would be looking for fodder for As The Dog Bite Turns...
Yes, the dog that bit me belongs to an ex. From TEN YEARS AGO.
IMO, irrelevant, which was exactly why I never mentioned it.
As 426 pointed out earlier, this particular climbing area is linear, the routes are stacked close and the trail is right on the base of the rock. Short of scheduling our climbing at separate areas or at separate times, or one of both of us giving up an activity at which we both are good and enjoy, the option that has worked for the past 10 years is to do what grown-up, adult human beings do: be civil.
What a novel concept...
:)
Edited to say THANK YOU ALL for your thoughts and well wishes. This truly is a special place. We may not always agree, but support is always there. And honestly, it'd be boring as shyte if we DID always agree!
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 19, 2011 - 01:50am PT
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This bite should be reported in the county in which it occurred. this probably can be done online. From the LA County website:
What bites to report? All animal bites to people are legally reportable in Los Angeles County
Who has to report? All people with knowledge of the bite. Locally most reports come from animal control agencies, physicians, and veterinarians, but anyone may report a bite.
Other than it being legally required, why report? The two primary reasons for reporting animal bites are:
Rabies Control. Reporting allows the local public health authority to investigate whether the biting animal may have transmitted rabies to the bite victim. Although rabies is currently not very common in Los Angeles County, rabies is endemic in our local bats and can be transmitted to other mammals and to people. Animals are constantly being brought into Los Angeles County from other counties, states and countries where the risk of rabies is higher than it is here. The risk of rabies in local animals can increase or decrease over time.
Animal Bite Data. Reporting allows local public health authority to track data and trends in animal bites to people within the local community.
http://publichealth.lacounty.gov/vet/biteintro.htm
A person may think, why should I mess around with this? When the next person gets injured, if you did not report, then it is on your head.......
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jan 19, 2011 - 09:53am PT
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Samantha--just be sure when you have your
bear spray or whatever--you might have to
use it on the pet owner too--don't hesitate--
JUST DO IT.
You shouldn't have to worry about some dog
attacking you at a crag.
Hope it's healing up okay!!!!
:-)
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That's Papajoto to you son!!!!!
Social climber
Oatmeal Arizona
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Jan 19, 2011 - 11:43am PT
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If your dog does not immediately respond to voice commands, it should not be off a leash.
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
All Over.
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Jan 19, 2011 - 04:16pm PT
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Dogs "SHUD" be on LEASHES when outdoors and supervised at ALL times...
Supervised, yes. Leashed, no.
Depends on the owner, dog, and place.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 19, 2011 - 04:20pm PT
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troll, Silver
I thought this was about wusses with dogs that have their girlfriends stand up for them on the net.
Who is this guy?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jan 19, 2011 - 04:34pm PT
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c'mon silver!
Really!
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Ricardo Cabeza
climber
All Over.
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Jan 19, 2011 - 04:48pm PT
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Sorry Silver, not gonna happen.
I can appreciate the fact that you don't like dogs but like I said, there's a time and place for everything. Even letting well trained dogs off leash.
What if you had a deep seated resentment of horses? Keep 'em in their pastures or in the barn at all times? A pissed off horse with a rider on it can wreak havoc. I've seen it.
It's all in the training with horses, just as it is with dogs.
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Gene
climber
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:02pm PT
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I wouldn't bring a dog to a crag
Good
even if I had one.
Even better!
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jstan
climber
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:12pm PT
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The California Health and Safety Code, Section 121690, mandates that the governing body of
each city, or county shall maintain or provide a rabies control shelter system and
a rabies control program which includes companion animal immunization and licensing; stray
animal control; animal bite reporting, investigation, and animal quarantine.
Domestic dogs or cats that bite humans must be placed in quarantine and watched for signs of
rabies for ten days following the exposure date regardless of the animal’s vaccination status, or
else killed immediately and tested for rabies in an approved public health laboratory. If an
isolated dog or cat is healthy at the end of the ten-day period, there is no risk of rabies exposure
from the original bite wound.
http://www.ci.berkeley.ca.us/citycouncil/2006citycouncil/packet/061306/2006-06-13%20Item%2003%20Rabies%20Quarantine%20Regs.pdf
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canyoncat
Social climber
SoCal
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:14pm PT
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So let me get this straight...Chubby chick gets bitten by dog owned by guy who dumped her.
There's really only one burning question. How long did it take him to train the dog to nip the bitch?
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matisse
climber
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:18pm PT
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I wouldn't bring a dog to a crag even if I had one
I want my own crag.
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Gene
climber
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:19pm PT
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Thanks, Matisse.
I was about to get vulgar with canyoncat.
g
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Jan 19, 2011 - 05:19pm PT
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Its not just training it's also personality. Some dogs are born friendly, some are skittish.
Size also comes into play. A Rottweiler needs to be better supervised than a chihauhau.
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