out of control bolting at sugarloaf

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steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Apr 13, 2010 - 12:57pm PT

Seems like someone posted about bringing a stack of washers in, putting them on the stud and start cranking down on the nut to get max pull, adding washers when necessary until it breaks or pulls. Expect you'd need a good solid socket with a long breaker bar type handle.

tolman_paul

Trad climber

Anchorage, AK

Apr 13, 2010 - 01:04pm PT

If the rock is relatively flat at the face of the bolt, cut the stud with a hacksaw, then use a pin to hammer the stud as deep as it will go and patch. Hammering back and forth really scars the rock, same with the crow bar.

Tork

climber

Yosemite

Apr 13, 2010 - 01:56pm PT

If your not replacing the bolt, which is the case here, don't worry about pulling the bolt. What's the point. Worry about doing a good job patching the scar.

As stated above, tighten down on the bolt as hard as you can. The farther you get the bolt out the deeper you can punch the remainder of the stud back in. Wack the stud back and forth until it breaks. I've done it in as little as four hits but they are generally stubborn and take patience. After the bolt breaks I use an old bit and hammer to punch the remaining stud back into the hole. I've only used InstaCrete concrete repair epoxy putty, others may use something else the think is better??? Pinch a small chunck of putty off with your fingers and smash it into a ball for a while mixing the two part putty well. Fill the hole until a small amount sticks out past the hole. Now take a chunck/flake of similar rock and press it onto the remaining putty sticking out of the hole. Now litely tap the peice of rock many times until it breaks up and mixes with the putty. Smooth it out and wipe off any excess. Seems to work well for me.

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Apr 13, 2010 - 02:14pm PT

If they are new wedge bolts I wouldn't even try to pull them...

If you're lucky the boneheads who placed the bolts overdrilled the hole depth. This would allow you to cut or break the exposed stud off, then drive the remainder deeper into the hole with a drift. A mix of instacrete and local rock fragments finishes the job.

Years ago someone placed an anchor - two 1/2" wedgies with big old cold shuts - halfway up the one pitch wall at Trapper Dome, Courtright, just right of "Orgasm Addict." This was a real eyesore and of course I was flabbergasted and set out to remedy the situation asap. I rapped down to the spot, took off the shuts, and on a whim hit one of the bolts squarely with my hammer. It drove in flush. A couple more blows using a 3/8 chisel for a drift sent it deep out of sight, same with the other. The holes had 1.5" depth to spare.

Edit: I didn't see Tork's post - got distracted by something and sat on mine for a few... anyway... Yep.

Tork

climber

Yosemite

Apr 13, 2010 - 02:22pm PT

I thought the point of the triplex's was thy could be easily removed?

Tork

climber

Yosemite

Apr 13, 2010 - 02:38pm PT

Bummer! That bolt is expensive! Why use it just to fu@K it up? Gotta wonder? To me that seems like the way to go. Seems they colld make it 3/8ths and a bit shorter though???

woof!

Trad climber

texas

Apr 13, 2010 - 02:50pm PT

Time to call out the monkey wrench gang

Maysho

climber

Soda Springs, CA

Apr 13, 2010 - 03:02pm PT

Norwegian,

I have been a fan of your prose, and the philosophy behind it. Right now I am disappointed in your rush to vandalistic self-rightous action over thought provoking discourse with the parties involved. Perhaps these bolts are truly unfortunate, so go talk to these drillers, hear their reasoning, see if you can enlighten and maybe you will make a difference. In my observations over 37 years of full immersion in this vertical endeavor, chopping is only an escalatory move, and little learning on either side occurs.

As we approach the Bridwellfest next week, recalling his advice at the peak of the Valley bolting wars, which ended in friends being violent, bitterness, and wrecked stone...

"At the end of your life, when you "meet your maker" or whatever, you won't give a f*ck what you climbed or how you did it, all that will matter is who you did or didn't help along the way."

Take this opportunity to "help" some others learn something through discussion, and maybe you will really effect positive change.

Peter

healyje

Trad climber

Portland, Oregon

Apr 13, 2010 - 03:16pm PT

The best approach with wedge anchors is to simply over-tighten them until the snap off, tap them back in the hole, and then use stick expoy to seal the hole. Too much damage typically occurs knocking the head back and forth to break them, particularly on rocks softer than granite.

Tork

climber

Yosemite

Apr 13, 2010 - 03:21pm PT

Well said Peter.

Although probably to late.

Studly

Trad climber

Apr 13, 2010 - 03:24pm PT

Peter, I agree with you competely. Well said.

Norwegian

Trad climber

Placerville, California

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 13, 2010 - 03:25pm PT

peter,
i value your input.
my reaction to these bolts is not entirely spontaneous.
sugarloaf has been under the attack of these bolters for a couple of years now. i think that they retired, and bought some drills.

MANY MANY many bolts have grown from rocks all over the hill. squeeze jobs, and bolt grids galore.

there has been friction within the local climbing community, from which i've mostly abstained. i do shake my head when i walk past a boulder on the way to the main sugarloaf formation and see 4 or 5 well-bolted 5.7 slabs right next to each other.

but, as i stated in my original post, i've used their anchors with my children. but only the top rope anchors, where these developments logically could have stopped. but no. these folks have heavy hands and lots of spare time.

then i saw bolted cracks.

now i am up to here in the community friction, and those bolts will be gone. in removing them, i am passive-agressively shouting to the bolters to leave the f*#king cracks be.

im not socially advanced. i barely get by in that realm. unless i've a few beers then i almost shine.

and thanks to all of you whom provided removal advice.
i will do my research and as cleanly as possible, attone the bolter's sins.

see ya at the crag.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Apr 13, 2010 - 03:37pm PT

i am passive-agressively shouting

Why not be more courageous and talk to them?

krahmes

Social climber

Apr 13, 2010 - 04:10pm PT

Strikes me as a bit of lark that all of ya arguing for a “dialogue” don’t seem to think that discussion should take place before the bolts go in; from my POV; impractical on their way in and impractical on their way out. Such is life. Indeed if I read this view right, you all are arguing that I should be able to dig a mine or build a house on public land and then expect the government to come and have a dialogue about whether my “improvement “ gets to stay, but in the end I have the final say. Just sayin.

the Fet

climber

Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La

Apr 13, 2010 - 04:40pm PT

It's seems their website IS at least partly for talking about the bolts they are placing and giving you a way to contact them.

And having the conversation now shouldn't just be a statement of "these bolts are bogus, I'm going to chop them" It should be a two way dialogue to hopefully educate each other about where you are coming from.

The converstaion should be for example "Why did you place these bolts?" Wait for response. "I think it's not acceptable to bolt next to a protectable cracks" Wait for response. "Please remove the bolts" wait for response. "I respect your opinion but I don't agree and I will be removing the bolts myself where would you like me to leave the hangers?".

Maybe I'm wrong and communication will only lead to a greater fight, but I doubt it, usually the more communication the better.

By the way the website gives some good info on the climb. It sounds like a variation on the top was already bolted long ago and it hasn't been climbed in a long time as evidenced by the moss in the chimney and on the old bolts.

Nordy, to confirm it can be protected with nothing bigger than a 2" piece? At a PG rating? Just trying to get as many facts as possible out there.

tom woods

Gym climber

Bishop, CA

Apr 13, 2010 - 04:56pm PT

Some people just like bolting. They often think they bolt for other people, but I bet deep down inside, they know they are doing it for themselves.

Me- I vote top rope before bolts. There are already more climbs than climbers to do them.

If it's a classic- go for it. Another slab to nowhere? What's the point?

This chimney appears weak, though I say talk to the guys first. Show them this thread and all the pro chop comments.

Bolts tend reproduce at an alarming rate, if the bolters are left alone.

Someone will eventually bolt every variation to everything.