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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 10, 2016 - 04:42pm PT
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People considering retro-bolting the Needles should start thinking about the personal implications of the existence of expert riflemen capable of hitting a human target two-thirds of a mile away.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
Cali
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May 10, 2016 - 04:55pm PT
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I think Carson still cowboys in them there hills and always carries his ought six.
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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May 10, 2016 - 04:58pm PT
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People considering retro-bolting the Needles should start thinking about the personal implications of the existence of expert riflemen capable of hitting a human target two-thirds of a mile away
ok, rad guy
vvvvvvvv you still posted it, rad guy and I am more than happy to have anything you have to post go right over my head
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 11, 2016 - 05:11am PT
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Its a book reference Overtard. Like most things, it went right over your head.
Back to the guidebook, I'm interested to hear some of the history of the are climbing and non-climbing since I've heard some of it but there's probably much more.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 11, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
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...I've heard some of it but there's probably much more.
I drilled down pretty deep for the historical info. In this regard I'm glad it took so long, lot's of the best contributions came in late. Anyway there should be some surprises and fun stuff in that regard.
I know some climbers prefer guidebooks to be lean and mean; the routes and how to get to them. This is not that book. But clocking in at a tad over 200 pages it's not like hauling around the Gideon Bible either.
So along with the regular guidebook stuff, I've tried to create an enjoyable and informative book. For example in my case when I read the geology article - written for the book by a climber/geologist - I saw the surrounding Sierra and The Needles in a whole new light.
Anyone who writes a book like this can expect to take some flak for all sorts of reasons. I've been rolling around on a bed of nails to thicken my skin, so bring it on :-)
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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May 11, 2016 - 12:46pm PT
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You will get no complaint from me. One of the reasons I'm so "protective" of first ascent aesthetics is a result of trying to put myself in the FA shoes when climbing a route. It always impresses me and I've never climbed anything "hard".
The history of a climbing location and the context of first ascentionists and principle developers is key to my enjoyment of an area. When I hike out to the Needles and look at ankles away or White Punks its fun to think about the folks that stood at the base and looked up.
I feel those people deserve their due in any written treatment of an area.
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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May 11, 2016 - 01:04pm PT
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My comment was slightly sarcastic. Not sure if Fat Dad has climbed at the Needles recently but in the last three years, whenever I was there, the place was LOADED with climbers. There is plenty of topos and info about frequently done routes and obscure routes as well. A LOT of gym climbers all over the place. Nothing that I am aware of has been retrobolted and no one has mentioned how nice Atlantis would be if it had a bit more pro available, or adding a bolt above the first on Wailing Banshees (you basically climb HARD face for 15 feet above the first with real decking potential if you blow the non trivial last moves, while pumped as hell) or anything else that is actually given an R rating. Unlike most of the not-anymore-climbing people on this web site, most of these gym climbing newbs go out there and try challenging things with not getting f-ed up as a priority, like those other people who used to climb there before.
New guidebook will be very appreciated, I am looking forward to getting it and I would not fear the whole place will become a giant bolt ladder. People know most of the climbs have tricky pro and most treat it with respect. Can't climb it, don't get on it or hang a TR.
Additions: really looking forward to climbing there this yea. The place is full of likely the best cracks in the state and routes that are very good at making one very humble! :)
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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May 11, 2016 - 02:05pm PT
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The approach is like 3 miles and it's not flat!!!
If we bolt all the cracks we won't have to carry all those dumb cams and stuff.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 11, 2016 - 02:11pm PT
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Hi Vitaly, the crowding varies a lot. I've spent weeks at a time living in that campground recently. During the week it's usually pretty mellow. Maybe a party from Britain or Switzerland, a few locals or Yosemite folks.
Weekends, especially holidaze are another story. You need a traffic cop where Airy Interlude an Igor Unchained come together.
Maybe see you up there one day...
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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May 11, 2016 - 02:12pm PT
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EDIT.... cool my head down.
whatever Vittles. meth
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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May 11, 2016 - 02:27pm PT
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Was that directed toward me? True, I am a member of the Fat Dad club (guess there's a club now) but I have gotten out there at least once a year for the past several years and climbed things like Pit and the Pendulum, Airy Interlude, Igor Unchained, Anti-Jello Crack, Windjammer, South Face of Warlock, The Howling, and a few more. If that makes me part of the 'used to get out crowd', I'm happy with that.
Contrary to what Vitaliy has seen, I have seen folks but not really what I would call crowds. The usual congregating at the Witch/Sorceror notch, but certainly not gym climbers (and by that I mean sport climbers). I think most people who have gotten out to the Needles with the resources now available are not the type to advocate retrobolting. But you've seen the threads on sites like Mountain Project, where some contend that Double Cross in Joshua Tree needs a bolt at the beginning to be safe. I'm certainly not advocating it. But wait and see, there will be a new crowd with possibly different expectations who will claim that the bolting on West Side Story is "elitist". Hope I'm wrong.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 11, 2016 - 03:09pm PT
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...who will claim that the bolting on West Side Story is "elitist". Hope I'm wrong.
If they think West Side Story is "Elitist", their heads will explode when they check out Harlem Shuffle or Straight to Hell.. :-)
I do think that getting new bolts on these routes before they disappear completely will help to prevent such acts. There are plenty of climbers who will climb those routes if they can count on the bolts to hold a fall.
Liquid Sky has new bolts, and should see some ascents now. Sea of Tranquility is also replaced. Don Juan Wall has new belay bolts. Lumpy the Fish and Dulldrills (two runout one pitch routes for confident leaders) are fixed up. As are Shadows in The Rain and Planet Waves. One route at a time the job gets done. I guess there rest of the west face Magician Routes are next.
ASCA all the way baby! When you clip a nice modern bolt, or bomber rings at a belay remember the source.
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cotuclimber
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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May 11, 2016 - 04:56pm PT
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Needles are great. Was there last fall with friends who climb at the gym in the bay. One of them onsighted Don Juan with Atlantis. Redpointed Sirocco with me on the following day. Without adding bolts, woot!
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overwatch
climber
Arizona
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May 11, 2016 - 06:40pm PT
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Vitaliy M.
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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May 12, 2016 - 11:54am PT
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EDIT.... cool my head down.
whatever Vittles. meth
Don't know what you said, as the content is EDITed out, but what problem do you have with my comment earlier in the thread? If you want email me personally, don't want you to be upset for no good reason: xxvitaliyxx@yahoo.com
One with an offer to retrobolt was a joke.
In the other, I point out the Needles DO SEE traffic now, without a super modern guidebook. People that climb in the gym DO go there. And as far as I know, no classic routes have acquired RETRO bolts. A friend rebolted a long difficult free route a few years ago with the help of ASCA hardware.
I am sick of all the bashing of the 'new generation.' Which is constant on this forum. Presuming a new guidebook will invite herds of retro-bolting gym climbers is ridiculous. Wouldn't be surprised if majority of the sold books would go to those like me and most of the posters on this thread - those who have been to the Needles already. Those visiting CA too of course. But no Fat Dad, I do not think there will be a bunch of retro bolting going on in the next 10 years....unless Mr. Woot gets sick of the Valley or something...
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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May 12, 2016 - 04:40pm PT
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...any timeline for release?
It's really out of my hands at this point. KDanielspublishing is at the helm. W.L. mentioned customs problems with Jerry Handren's Red Rocks guide. Hopefully things will go smoothly with this one.
The Needles book is dedicated to the memory of my friend Michael Ybarra.
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cotuclimber
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
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May 12, 2016 - 04:50pm PT
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RIP Michael.
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skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
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May 12, 2016 - 05:24pm PT
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Nice remembrance! Looking forward to reading about the history of this particular area ksolem.
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limpingcrab
Trad climber
the middle of CA
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May 12, 2016 - 06:41pm PT
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Best granite crack climbing in the world?
Yes please.
I love southern Sierra climbing history so I'm glad it's a big book and includes it.
The place deserves a quality guide and I bet kris did it justice, can't wait to get a copy! Woot!
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EP
Trad climber
Way Out There
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May 12, 2016 - 07:57pm PT
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I have stood where Michael Ybarra was. Wonderful place to be.Sad to lose a good friend.
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