Why do so many people believe in God? (Serious Question?)

Discussion Topic

Return to Forum List

This thread has been locked

Messages 1361 - 1380 of total 4502 in this topic

<< First | < Previous | Show All | Next > | Last >>

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 20, 2010 - 12:06pm PT

btw, fruct, several of us involved in the 9/11 truth movement have had dealings with the skeptics society. they seem to want to suspend the laws of physics for the world trade center story. take a look at it, if you think you know anything about science.

what largo said: in psychology, there is a thing called 'information bias.' we filter out whatever does not conform to what we think is the truth ... we literally will not consider or be open to contrary information, or else we will alter its value or definition so as not to threaten our preconceived notions or given criteria.

tell me what you know about paranormal science and why you throw it out. everyone else here argues details. you just dismiss.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 20, 2010 - 12:08pm PT

dr. F, you must be confusing what i aimed at fructose. i probably agree with you--i'm open to evidence about the paranormal and i don't think it necessarily proves anything about god.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

Full Silos of Iowa

Jun 20, 2010 - 12:08pm PT

"we literally will not consider or be open to contrary information, or else we will alter its value or definition so as not to threaten our preconceived notions or given criteria."

Now you're REALLY reminding me of Klimmer: How rich when supernaturalists or paranormalists or crazy conspiracists provide such a quote. The pinnacle of the pot calling the kettle black.

"everyone else here argues details. you just dismiss"

Laughable.

Later, birdbubb...

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

Full Silos of Iowa

Jun 20, 2010 - 12:16pm PT

Dude, do you read others' posts?

F wrote-

"Tony, I never said all paranormal activity is bunk."

Sorry to hear that. But science does. Time and again. Ad nauseum. Spanning decades now. "Paranormal activity is bunk." That's the stance from science. Mine, too.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 20, 2010 - 12:27pm PT

there are actually a few academic havens left for paranormal research. most of them have been drummed out of existence by scientific orthodoxists like fructose here or made a laughingstock by movies like ghostbusters. duke university has one, the university of nevada-las vegas used to have one, the ucla neuropsychological institute got its start with a great one, the late thelma moss, but it has gone the way of all unorthodox inquiry.

dean radin, with a master's in electrical engineering and a phd in psychology, may be one of the foremost researchers currently. he likes to cite carl sagan's own admission that at least three things are worth looking into: 1) that by thought alone, humans can (barely) affect random number generations in computers, 2) that people under mild sensory deprivation can receive thoughts or images "projected" at them, and 3) that young children sometimes report the details of a previous life, which upon checking turn out to be accurate and which they could not have known about in any other way than reincarnation.

me, i wouldn't jump to sagan's conclusion about reincarnation. but i have experienced the intuiting of information that could not have been known in any other way than by psychic ability.

WBraun

climber

Jun 20, 2010 - 12:28pm PT

NIST lied.

Research it Dr F.

Research it completely from NIST they even admit it and been caught red handed.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 20, 2010 - 12:30pm PT

you do know about building 7, dr. F? and about the near free-fall speed involved in the collapse of all three buildings?

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

Full Silos of Iowa

Jun 20, 2010 - 12:36pm PT

Birdbubb wrote-

"...likes to cite carl sagan's own admission that..."

"me, i wouldn't jump to sagan's conclusion about reincarnation."

Two more wildly irresponsible constructions.

WBraun

climber

Jun 20, 2010 - 12:39pm PT

Says Corn Nut the imitator God .....

bestill

Trad climber

s. ca.

Jun 20, 2010 - 12:41pm PT

in answer to jaun's original question,i will add this: they have no choice. i mean,if you are hanging by half a rope on a run out shitty,loose,mancky,funky,giant ow with snakes in it,wouldn"t you jump in a foxhole.

Tony Bird

climber

Northridge, CA

Jun 20, 2010 - 01:14pm PT

so, building 7 then, a 42-story steelframe skyscraper collapses in less than 10 seconds on the afternoon of 9/11, hours after the twin towers came down. it is one of many buildings ringing the twin towers block on all four sides from across the street. none of them were hit by airplanes, there was damage, but none came down except building 7, which came down just as fast as the twin towers.

some mysteries can stand a long time, others solve pretty quickly.

another real good mystery in this context is the fact that the pentagon was hit 45 minutes later, without a smidgen of air defense taking place over washington, d.c.

------

"all three of these have been investigated since Carl Sagan's time, and debunked"

sagan's time wasn't that long ago.

dr. F, both you and fructose seem to accept a lot without being able to speak about the details. if you knew this material and understood it, you'd be able to talk about it. as it is, you're both here in everyone's face, just as noisy and insulting and assertive as the bible quoters, quoting material you haven't even looked at closely but regard with the sacredness of a "good book". you're making a myth of your own out of science. science is a long process of inquiry and experiment, and truths have been know to come along which wipe out everything previously agreed upon.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

Full Silos of Iowa

Jun 20, 2010 - 01:15pm PT

Details? Ask away. I love details.

In the interim, want an example in open-mindedness:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/latin_america/10333304.stm

"you're both here in everyone's face, just as noisy and insulting and assertive as..."

Now you're really being girly...

Claims: (1) Earth is round. (2) Life is at base physics and chemistry and the buildup of these into ever more complex systems, all mechanistic. No experiment has ever show otherwise. (3) The brain, like the other organs, actually does something. It's called mind (including consciousness, sentience). (4) Jehovah (aka Yahweh) was one of 100s of Mediterranean-Mesopotamian Gods.

Yeah, I'm "assertive" about these claims. Believe you me, it is not to "convince" anyone or "make anyone believe." Such reverse accusations are so lame. No doubt these accusations are often made time and again now by an Abrahamic religious person (e.g, Klimmer) because they are already a part of his vocabulary, having heard it thrown at him and his ilk so much.

But keep the faith, change is coming: there's a huge difference between the methods, styles and thinking going on in the sciences and these same things in the Abrahamic religions. And the latter because of it are losing big time. In two or three more generations, time will tell the evolutionary tale.

Declaring my support (for these claims or others) expresses my identity. Expressing my identity serves numerous ends. For one thing, it advertises me. It tells others who I am. Not a supernaturalist for example clinging to bronze age stupidities. Also, it tells the world that there are some who respect science, science education, reason and not everyone is a modern day supernaturalist.

The details are everywhere in books. Don't confuse decision-making (which is a good thing, arguably defining our species) with close-mindedness (e.g., in the traditional Christian or Muslim style). Most can see through it to the bullsh#t.

P.S.

Why don't you naysayers try adapting to the shocking bits of the so-called Scientific Story (e.g., it's evolutionary nature, it's mechanistic nature) instead of fighting them. You might find after some exposure they're no longer so shocking and life based on the Scientific Story ain't so bad afterall.

Brokedownclimber

Trad climber

Douglas, WY

Jun 20, 2010 - 01:17pm PT

Tony-

One of my good friends is a licensed professional blaster, who commented on building 7: "That was a professional masterpiece." FWIW.

WBraun

climber

Jun 20, 2010 - 01:54pm PT

Corn nut says -- "It tells others who I am."

As an anonymous leg humper.

Jan

Mountain climber

Okinawa, Japan

Jun 20, 2010 - 02:02pm PT

Fructose-

I'm not suggesting that Wilson and Dennett aren't materialists. I also never said that 3rd - 19th century Christians weren't literalists. What I am saying is that most modern Christians seem to be coming around to a stance more similar to the early teachings and the early church and that Wilson has said scientists and religious leaders need to work together for the sake of the planet. Both of those positions involve compromise which is probably why you object.

You keep trying to put people in boxes, but most people are not committed to a single unitary view. As someone who has lived in in eleven different countries and struggled with learning four very different languages, three of them non European, and who teaches in two different departments, everything from physical anthropology to Eastern religions, there is nothing in my life experience that would lead me to believe that there is only one correct way of thinking or doing things whether it is religion or science. I can talk about evolution and I can quote the Bible, and the Bhagavad Gita and the Dhammapada. I use western medicine and acupuncture. I don't feel that I need to choose only one.

As for camping trips, I think it would be very interesting to camp with Klimmer, Jennie, and Tony. For sure we wouldn't agree, we might even decide to put some topics off limits, but I'm guessing that not being as committed to a particular version of truth as you are, we'd find common ground even while discussing religions and conspiracies. Who knows, we might even spend part of our time constructing a religious conspiracy specifically aimed at driving you mad?!

Who knows? We might even call you girly.

WBraun

climber

Jun 20, 2010 - 02:07pm PT

Jan to Corn Nut -- "You keep trying to put people in boxes"

Exactly what he does all the time.

High Fructose Corn Spirit

Gym climber

Full Silos of Iowa

Jun 20, 2010 - 02:12pm PT

Kudos to Wilson for trying to get together with Creationists and Evangelicals to save the biodiversity. I've been aware of this effort of his (to work with them) for a long time.

"I'm not suggesting that Wilson and Dennett aren't materialists. I also never said that 3rd - 19th century Christians weren't literalists."

These things are exactly what you suggested (if not outright said in regard to the evolution of Christians and Christian fundamentalism being mostly a modern 19th-20th century American invention).

Jan- Happy camping.
Brawny- Get off my grass.

P.S. (a) Engineers as applied scientists have done some pretty impressive things working out of their "boxes" and spelunca. (You can only express P=EI in so many ways, it's not open-ended.) (b) Birdbubb- Good luck with your paranormal details.

A major mistake the JKJT club seems to make- as if in unanimity- is that they are the only ones at the Taco who have put serious decades-long scholarship or study either (a) into these subjects directly or (b) into the intersection where science, philosophy, religion and belief all meet up. Another that it seems to make is that if you get around to decision making and actually make decisions based on this study and then defend these decisions against bs you hear or read then you're close-minded.

go-B

climber

In God We Trust

Jun 20, 2010 - 02:16pm PT

All the purposes of man have been defeated, but not the purposes of God. The promises of man may be broken-many of them are made to be broken-but the promises of God shall all be fulfilled. He is a promise-maker, but He never was a promise-breaker; He is a promise-keeping God, and every one of His people shall prove it to be so.
-C. H. Spurgeon

There is no expiration date on God's promises!

Psalm 89:1-8, I will sing of the steadfast love of the Lord, forever;
with my mouth I will make known your faithfulness to all generations.
2 For I said, “Steadfast love will be built up forever;
in the heavens you will establish your faithfulness.”
3 You have said, “I have made a covenant with my chosen one;
I have sworn to David my servant:
4 ‘I will establish your offspring forever,
and build your throne for all generations.’” Selah

5 Let the heavens praise your wonders, O Lord,
your faithfulness in the assembly of the holy ones!
6 For who in the skies can be compared to the Lord?
Who among the heavenly beings is like the Lord,
7 a God greatly to be feared in the council of the holy ones,
and awesome above all who are around him?
8 O Lord God of hosts,
who is mighty as you are, O Lord,
with your faithfulness all around you?

Revelation 3:7, ‘The words of the holy one, the true one, who has the key of David, who opens and no one will shut, who shuts and no one opens.