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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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oh no! Paraquot for grazing mammals, no way I'm eating one!
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Lobo or loco? Only his hairdresser knows for sure.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Have to confess meeting a "cereal" killer in the lodge cafeteria in Yosemite one year. The dirtbag was going from table to table eating breakfast leftovers like a hungry (you guessed it) wolf. Disgusting to watch. It was the one time in the park I wished I was armed, All I could do was say, "get a job."
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Actually Roxy I don't feel threatened by you. You threatened me with physical harm. Did you have any classes with Sarah Palin? You seem to share a similar command of logic AND the English language. Remember, I'm brave enough to walk around without a firearm!
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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The problem is your argument is one from emotion. Statistically, it could be argued more negative actions will take place in the national parks based on the increase carrying of firearms: accidents, domestic disputes, you name it. While the statistical need for protection from psychopaths is really, virtually nonexistant. Of the millions and millions of employees and tourists living and visiting Yosemite over the past 20 years five have been killed by a serial killer. It is heartbreaking to think of anyone killed in such a way and we can certainly be moved by the emotion those events evoke but in terms of utility as well as statistically it just doesn't justify the added danger firearms bring to the situation. I'm trying to be sincere here, I'm not trying to just pull your chain.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Where are YOU from?
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Word.
But I will pull your chain.....& then rattle it around.
Hi.
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apogee
climber
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Rockjox-
You have been trying prove your point that guns are acceptable in the NP's because of how commonly serial killers wander amongst the trees. You spray about how frequent this occurs, telling others to find the proof themselves by googling the topic, as though 1,267,345 hits will arise, while the only instance you can provide are the Cary Stayner murders, which, by the way, did not happen in the backcountry of the NP, while similar atrocities likely occur on a weekly (daily?) basis across the country.
Using these murders as proof of your pathetic argument is an especially egregious and slimy strategy, and is clear evidence of just how f*cking psycho you are, nutball. Joie was the girlfriend of a co-worker of mine at that time, and her murder occurred while we were present at the same location. Her murder was devastating to her partner, and to many of her colleagues and the community at YI. While I didn't know Joie personally, I can virtually guarantee that she would not have supported the idea of guns in the NP's- no way, no how.
STFU, Rockjox. Now.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Is it "f*cking psycho" to wear a helmet while climbing?
Are smoke detectors "f*cking psycho"?
How "f*cking psycho" is it to buckle your seatbelt?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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OH! And where did the guy who kidnapped the little girl who ended up being found following him around in a strange costume, acting like he was her father. The Utah girl. He went and stayed at CAMPGROUNDS with a kidnapped little GIRL! Was her name Smith?
I think that was Elizabeth Smart, Rox. Kidnapped by the excommunicated guru “Emmanuel”. She was taken from her bedroom.
The girl in central Idaho might be Stephanie Crane, but I don’t think her body was ever found. The police suspected Keith Hescock from Idaho Falls. He lived in my neighborhood and abducted Amber Hoopes across the street from my mother’s house, and her body was never found. He abducted another girl and she got away and he shot himself after the police chase.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Rocks, most of the murders your using for your argument were not committed in NP's, their bodies were dumped in the park, statistically you are more likely to be struck by lightning than murdered in a national park. Most murders or even shootings that have happened in parks were from snipers that no one could see, and carrying a gun would have done little good. If you discount the urban parks, philly, national mall, etc. there are actually very few murders, and most of the murders I find are actually rangers who were shot, and they were packing.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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"Is it "f*cking psycho" to wear a helmet while climbing?
Are smoke detectors "f*cking psycho"?
How "f*cking psycho" is it to buckle your seatbelt?"
no, but your using of those safety devices has zero chance to negatively affect me, a gun does.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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I never said it didn't happen, the chances are so minuscule.
One fact i believe you are overlooking is the fact that a lot of murders that do occur in national parks are committed by people close to the victim, they are brought to a secluded area to be murdered, these people are decived or tricked well before they are ever brought into a NP and are not going to be armed. Could just as well be BLM or DOA land, these people are not random victims, sure the there have been random ones on the APT, but again the chances of that in, my opinion, do not way heavily enough to have people packing heat. If this is your only reason to carry a gun in a national park you had better carry a gun everywhere you go in your life, because your much more likely to be gunned down a populated area.
"If a ranger needs serious help with a perp or attackers, does he want an honest citizen with a pillow, or a gun?"
I don't want a citizen to ever attempt to help me in a situation that could jeopardize there safety, because that jeopardizes mine. Would i not thank the person that helps me in a sticky situation? of course i would, but if i ever get into a shoot out the last thing i want is more guns, at least from people that i don't know, what are their motives? why do they have a gun? maybe the guy I'm shooting at was trying to defend themselves from the person that is now also shooting at them, not things i want to think about if I'm in a fight for my life.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Mr Powers writes:
"no, but your using of those safety devices [helmets, seat-belts] has zero chance to negatively affect me, a gun does."
How exactly does a gun, legally carried by a responsible American, "negatively affect" you?
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Mr.Chaz writes:
"How exactly does a gun, legally carried by a responsible American, "negatively affect" you?
I didn't say it did,but anyone discharging a weapon in a campground could hurt plenty of people.
You're not exactly on your A game are you Mr.Chaz?
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Where are YOU from?
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You go, Dingus....
Most of this is SO much hot air, anyhow.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Discharging weapons in campgrounds is still illegal, isn't it?
You won't find one person here who thinks it's OK to shoot guns in campgrounds.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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your right, so whats the point of haveing a gun?
to defend yourself? in order to defend your self with a gun you either have to brandish it wich can escalate things to astronomical proportions, or you have to shoot the guy thats trying to rob your pick'a'nick basket, that involves the discharge of a weapon, hopefully that guy flying his kite isn't in the bullets path
Come on Chaz I know you can do better than that!
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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^your right, it is the same, and again im not worried about responsible gun owners, im scared of the cowboys that want to take the law into their own hands after a couple of drinks.
Lockers friendly nephew
NPS
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Isn't it still illegal "to take the law into their own hands after a couple of drinks"?
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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OKay thats it for me. Im off to court, Im not in trouble, the other guy is. yall have a nice day sorting this one out!
Chaz edit: "Isn't it still illegal "to take the law into their own hands after a couple of drinks"? "
yes,But now they will think that they can legally do it with guns.
Your still somewhere around a D- you can do better!
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