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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jun 23, 2008 - 03:31pm PT
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It's interesting the things in the Bible (and other religions) that people CHOOSE to believe while rejecting other parts. You don't see many people nowadays advocating stoning, slavery, multiple wives, etc. things that are honky dory in the Bible but homosexuality is sooo wrong.
So don't pass the buck on your beliefs to the Bible. You don't subsribe to everything the Bible says is wrong or right, why do you choose to for this topic?
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
San Fernando Lamas
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Jun 23, 2008 - 03:35pm PT
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GOD™?
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jun 23, 2008 - 06:49pm PT
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LEB- many gay men are in monogamus relationships. I can think of several that I know personally that are. The hook up thing definately goes on, but I think is concentrated in places like NY and SF. In fact, I was just complaining that it's easier to find astro-glide than kids sunscreen in our local drug store.
The marriage to goats, kids, cousins, etc. argument is a strawman.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 23, 2008 - 07:59pm PT
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The old testament provides some fine, detailed laws.
That is, for an 8th century BCE tribal culture.
Funny that no one ever asks why god couldn't bother to provide detailed laws in the old testament for everything else that came along later, and has yet to come along.
Oh wait, she eventually did. The new testament provides a much more adaptable moral code for what had become a monotheist urban culture. The new testament is intended as a new dispensation, with one supreme commandment. It supercedes the old testament. Which is why it's so amusing, and depressing, to watch fundamentalists try to apply the 'laws' of the old testament to the modern world.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 23, 2008 - 08:07pm PT
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LEB, as far as generalization go, I agree. We have only to look at what some straight guys with unlimited access to women/sex have done (Wilt Chamberlain and a host of rock stars)
Peace
Karl
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dirtbag
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 23, 2008 - 08:29pm PT
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Can I please be an editor? The last version was rushed out in a hurry and some parts were either incorrect, unclear, or not well thought out.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Jun 23, 2008 - 09:44pm PT
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Someone made a comment way back about there being no 'history' for gay marriage to be in context with. Something akin to that the idea is new in recent years.
Well, considering that in some places a gay person is STILL in danger of being beaten to death by groups of men... and that in this day and age, people are still saying "God doesn't like it"and comparing the marriage between humans to be one step away from marrying your cat - it seems completely rational to me that gay people might not be all out and open about their situations.
Has it occurred to everyone here that there are, undoubtedly, gay members of Supertopo who never felt it necessary(or prudent) to let on?
Homosexual people have most likely existed from the moment genders came into existence. Do even a small bit of research and it's not difficult to see that people have lived with same-sex lovers throughout history, and that there has been a gay subculture in existence for some time before the Stonewall riots.
The reason we won't be marrying animals is because an animal is unable to give consent. Are there people who would LIKE to marry their pets? Yes, undoubtedly so. Even if that bridge did come to be crossed at some future time - I have a feeling that the majority of animal "lovers" probably identify more as heterosexual than homosexual.
One thing I CAN see coming down the road is a potential for the introduction of polyamorous couples to form marriages beyond the "take one only." What will we do then - when John and Sue have married, and Sue wants to add Richard or Rebecca as a second spouse?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Jun 23, 2008 - 11:31pm PT
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"I believe if an institution were to be created with an alternative name - say, for example, committed life partnership - it would be much more acceptable to people."
 oh sis, you are so 1996, (1096?) get with it, I know you're on the slow coast, but really...
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 24, 2008 - 12:31am PT
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Homo sex is not natural.
Anybody that thinks so is way homo.
Some of you people are way homo screwed up, yes definately.
This thread is way homo ......
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 24, 2008 - 12:37am PT
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Hey Jody, Please show me where I said this...
" But then he gets off the beaten path by extrapolating that into, "God doesn't judge or have rules"."
I didn't say this. Why would I teach Karma and you reap what you sow if I believed that God did not judge?
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monolith
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jun 24, 2008 - 12:59am PT
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The 'theory' is just the attempted explanation.
The observations of the behavior in these animals are real.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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Jun 24, 2008 - 01:00am PT
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Sadly, many here who accuse Christians of lacking compassion for homosexuals, are confusing flattery with Christian compassion. The world is full of flatterers, backslappers and the politically correct empty suits who smile and tell the gays what they want to hear. But when gays hit bad times or affect them personally our PC heroes put up that partition of indifference, and let gays flounder. (Homosexual relationships tend to be quite volatile, especially males.)
If they are lucky, they may have family or real friends who tell them the truth and, if need be, help them pick up the pieces when things shatter.
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monolith
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jun 24, 2008 - 01:03am PT
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OMG, God created animals with homosexual tendencies.
Now why would God do that?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 24, 2008 - 01:12am PT
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"but when gays hit bad times or affect them personally our PC heroes put up that partition of indifference, and let gays flounder."
Jennie, I call bull. Who are you generalizing about? There is a surprising number of gay people here in the park and I am friends to many of them. I have helped them through all of the same things that heterosexual couples go through. So please save your generalizing for yourself.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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Jun 24, 2008 - 01:13am PT
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Yes I have gay friends. I have, or had, a gay uncle. Does my opinion count?
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 24, 2008 - 01:24am PT
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I would say that is a biased use of statistics. Women don't do as much battering as men, so of course men in heterosexual relations are battered less. But how many women in heterosexual relations report as least some type of battering?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 24, 2008 - 01:30am PT
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So Jody, if suddenly certain religious groups wanted to legalize under-age marriage and Polygamy, citing support and precedent for it in the Bible, would you support it?
What basis would you then turn to for saying it was immoral?
It has never been easy to determine when to give rights to groups we marginalized previously. Heck, women only got the vote in 1920. (Kinda disgraceful don't cha think?)
Jody, can you claim that if you were your present age in 1915, you would have resisted women voting? Lots and lots of people did resist it. How would you know how you would have viewed the issue then?
Another question to ponder is, "Should Sin be illegal if it doesn't directly harm other non-consenting people?" What's the point of us have "free will" if the State compels us to follow religious laws? Where's the virtue in that? How would we be separate from those Islamic states with their morality police?
Peace
Karl
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nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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Jun 24, 2008 - 01:35am PT
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Jennie,said "(Homosexual relationships tend to be quite volatile, especially males.)"
Does my opinion count?
.....................................
OMG....NO NO No NO No.
Jennie, Almost all of my Gay friends are in a commited-long term relationships....... Oh..Did you delete that comment?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Idaho Falls
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Jun 24, 2008 - 01:42am PT
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Nita,
I didn't delete anything. I know a Lesbian couple in a long term relationship. Another girl I went to high school with, who was apparently heterosexual then, now is lesbian and has been in many relationships.
My uncle (dad's half brother) died of AIDS. He chnaged partners many times. Had fights with other homosexuals from time to time.
My experience....if yours is better, I can appreciate it.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jun 24, 2008 - 01:43am PT
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Jody,
Then we could say that homosexual relationships are safer for women then heterosexual relationships, because then no men would be involved and men do most of the physical violence.
Using statistics to prove homosexuality is immoral is just silly.
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