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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 18, 2016 - 06:08am PT
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HA, its every bit as deep as your silly requests to ban AR-15s.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 18, 2016 - 06:21am PT
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What's the matter, you trying to defect after being shown your silly frisk and ban ideas are worthless?
You can join Lorenzo in the dunce corner. He posts about stuff he's completely ignorant of just like you.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 18, 2016 - 11:05am PT
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jun 18, 2016 - 11:16am PT
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Background checks DONT work, when:
-you don't do a background check
-there are exceptions to background checks
-you can get around background checks
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 18, 2016 - 11:47am PT
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Mateen passed a background check.
Political correctness cost us big this time around...
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F
climber
away from the ground
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Jun 18, 2016 - 11:51am PT
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Okay! You have me convinced. Let's start issuing Glocks to everybody that walks through the door of a club. Then, in case of a nut job shoot up, everybody can defend themselves on equal terms. Escopetter, you in?
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 18, 2016 - 11:56am PT
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Just give everybody in the club a hand grenade.
Training is easier.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Jun 18, 2016 - 12:34pm PT
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Mateen passed a background check.
He was interviewed as a suspected terrorist by the FBI three times.
Just exactly what does a background test screen for?
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 18, 2016 - 12:47pm PT
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"Suspected" is not enough evidence...
yep, that damn politically correct stuff about the law keeps getting in the way
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Jun 18, 2016 - 12:58pm PT
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FBI:
TSC maintains the U.S. government's consolidated Terrorist Watchlist—a single database of identifying information about those known or reasonably suspected of being involved interrorist activity.
This guy was not just interviewed by the FBI, pretty much anyone who had any regular contact with him knew he was a full blown lunatic. The FBI "investigation" must have been pretty shallow. The fact that this guy passed a background check is a f*cking joke.
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c wilmot
climber
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Jun 18, 2016 - 01:19pm PT
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so do as you say not as you do?
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 18, 2016 - 01:23pm PT
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background checks are ridiculously easy to pass
they check public records to see if you are a convicted felon or if arrested and convicted the nature of the crime
no personal interviews or phone calls are involved in simple checks
the guy passed it as easily as I did
I could be wrong but from what I have been reading there is a certain standard for the FBI to present to a law judge in order to have a purchasing permit denied
making statement to co workers if not enough, unless direct national security threats are verified
maybe the rules, the law needs to be easier to deny permits, but it does not seem the FBI "failed", if so I would like to read exactly what section of their code they violated
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 18, 2016 - 02:02pm PT
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I saw a CNN report just now that said last year 244 people on the terror watch list attempted to buy firearms, and 223 were successful.
This begs some very obvious questions, one of which I'm interested in.
If the government isn't keeping records of who buys firearms, how did CNN find out exactly how many on that list had bought a firearm?
I think its the pinnacle to ignorance to put your faith in a broken, corrupt system...run by the government, to keep you safe.
The reality is that criminals don't follow rules and they don't bother with background checks. For the one Orlando shooter that slips through the cracks of an imperfect background check system, hundreds more simply go around the system and purchase their weapons illegally.
One of the provisions of the Brady Bill (and a major reason it passed) was the stipulation that no records would be kept on transferees.
Until we can have an honest discussion around how broken the fundamental base of this system is, the concept of records, background checks and terrorist watch lists is a moot point.
And before you all go on about how felons shouldn't have guns remember that, on average, you all are felons 3 times a day.
Talking about how background checks should be better is like listening to people try to critique a concerto being played on an out of tune piano.
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Berner
Mountain climber
Switzerland
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Jun 18, 2016 - 02:19pm PT
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found this in a newspaper in switzerland
Comparison of housholds with firearms in Switzerland and USA
and more interesting the number of death because of firearms...
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 18, 2016 - 02:25pm PT
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I think I'm reading that right which would bring ksolem's astute observations to the forefront.
Which is: Does Switzerland have an urban blight/gang problem similar to the US? Because I would be willing to bet a LOT of money that if one were to exclude JUST the black on black inner city firearms deaths that the numbers would be virtually identical on the murder dept.
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Norton
Social climber
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Jun 18, 2016 - 02:30pm PT
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The reality is that criminals don't follow rules and they don't bother with background checks.
on this Escopeta is right
since any convicted felon can buy any weapon right out of a newspaper with no background check, what good are background checks?
criminals don't respect laws so what good are stop signs?
laws are stupid and unnecessary and just more big government intrusion
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Berner
Mountain climber
Switzerland
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Jun 18, 2016 - 02:38pm PT
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I think I'm reading that right which would bring ksolem's astute observations to the forefront.
Which is: Does Switzerland have an urban blight/gang problem similar to the US? Because I would be willing to bet a LOT of money that if one were to exclude JUST the black on black inner city firearms deaths that the numbers would be virtually identical on the murder dept.
no. we don't have gang problems in Switzerland. The high number of firearms is because we can keep the guns after the army service. they just change it to semi automatic.
the stats read, that - even we have nearly the same amount of households with firearms (CH: 29% vs. USA 33%), there are "only" 9% of murder with firearms vs. 34% in the USA
We like do think in Switzerland, that we want to have guns at home without shooting people and it seems possible...
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Jun 18, 2016 - 02:53pm PT
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Maybe, just a thought, mind you, the good people of Suisse lead much better lives than a
high percentage of Americans who lead lives of quiet, and not so quiet, desperation. Hell,
the cows in Suisse lead better lives.
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Berner
Mountain climber
Switzerland
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Jun 18, 2016 - 03:08pm PT
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sure, most of the swiss have a good life but not everything is great, of course!
we too have problems with imigrants (20% of the population!) and a growing unemployment rate - but now I am going off topic, sorry
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
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Jun 18, 2016 - 03:34pm PT
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No Berner, I don't consider that off topic at all. Thanks for sharing the data, I've seen it previously and always find it interesting.
As Switzerland shows, as well as a very large portion of the US, having guns in households without shooting people is not only possible, its the norm in the overwhelming percentage of cases.
The reality is that many Americans have either become intolerant of the relatively minor inconveniences attending to real freedom and individual liberty or they simply want to use the government as their tool to require others to live in the manner they find acceptable.
As a result, we find them favoring action over success.
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