Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 08:41am PT
|
HTFU.
Thin skin has no place here, for better or worse. I've posted many touchy-feely threads over the years and I separate the wheat from the chaff. Be who you are, but be confident as you do so.
BTW Avery, I like what you're doing with the historical threads.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 08:47am PT
|
Yeah, good stuff on the Alpine History threads Avery.
Just step away for a bit. It's about the only thing that works for me when something gets me wrapped around the axle.
|
|
blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 08:47am PT
|
Here's my Internet Dick Tracy thought:
I don't think it's Kos, unless he's gone deep under cover.
The complainer targeted CenturyLink (which is the local telephone provider in Colorado and other places, but not, to my knowledge, anywhere in California, where Kos is from).
Assuming the ads are targeted by IP address, Kos wouldn't get CenturyLink ads and wouldn't have thought to target that company in his boycott.
Most likely, the complainer is from somewhere served by CenturyLink, so I think we can rule out the Californians (some of whom would otherwise be leading suspects--for some reason Ron and Californians don't seem to play nicely).
|
|
guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 08:48am PT
|
I'm sorry the admin won't give you the attention you deserve
Could you please elaborate on that, Fish Finder.
I'm tired of hiding behind "Avery"
My real name is Patrick Kavanagh (For those few people who give a damn)
Hi, Patrick. I don't know why you are all upset and calling out FF on his climbing content. I can swear to the fact that FF does indeed CLIMB ROCKS, quite well in fact.
So thanks for sporting up your real name, if it is indeed your real name.
Are you sure your not "Mark Winans?"
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 08:54am PT
|
Fish Finder is also a good friend of mine and has bailed me out of many situations and is well loved and liked in the local climbing community he resides in.
Save the abuse
That's 'abuse'? Can you say 'first world problems'?
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 08:57am PT
|
^^^^ If he does will you stop emailing advertisers to pull their content?
lolololol
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 08:59am PT
|
it might be easier to just tell Ron to refrain from posting racist comments?
What kind of alternate universe could that even happen in??
|
|
mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:02am PT
|
Hahahahaha! Bleedin' 'ell, Lt!!!!
|
|
looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:11am PT
|
209 posts in and none of our tin-hatters have cried false flag by CMac to drum up site traffic and rah-rah letters to sponsors?
I'm honestly a little disappointed.
|
|
Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:24am PT
|
Not sure why I'm replying to this thread... but I find the somewhat disingenuous outrage over the perceived limitations of "our freedom of expression" alleged to a "vigilante censor" quite beside the point.
Whether or not you, or the administrators of this web site believe that it is "more than just" a commercial enterprise, what is at stake is a commercial interest. And the mature act would be to protect the "property" represented by the site, the interest in the SuperTopo brand and its commercial offerings. In other words, formal legal proceedings against the allegations of the individual.
The owners of SuperTopo can decide whether or not it is worth their time to pursue such a course of action. Assuming that "Mark Winans" is seriously offended by the postings on SuperTopo Forum, he is well within his "rights" to voice his opinion to the world, including the advertisers. He is also well within his rights to organize a boycott on the basis of his beliefs. However, his actions are a deliberate attempt to deny the owners of the site the commercial benefits of running the site. It would seem this is disagreement is the sort of thing that gets sorted out in court.
If "Mark Winans" has ulterior motives the only way to discover them is to confront him legally.
The downside, of course, is that the outcome in initiating a legal action is not certain, though it is expensive in time and money.
This leads to the question about how the content of SuperTopo Forum is viewed by a reader, whether a member or not, and what action the administrators of the site could or should take in the protection of their commercial interest. Denying advertising through boycott does not shut the site down directly, there are other ways of raising revenue to maintain the site.
For those posting content which is the basis of "Mark Winans" complaint; those complaints are the natural consequences of expressing such ideas. Whether or not "our vibrant republic" supports the freedom to make these expressions, it does not make that expression exceptional, the freedom is open to everyone. And having all those ideas out in the "market of ideas" allows people to decide for themselves whether or not the ideas are acceptable and/or correct. The people can decide.
Where those decisions infringe a right of a minority (even a minority of one), we once again have the courts to decide the outcome.
As an aside, the society of SuperTopo Forum members does not necessarily hold the views of the general internet public, and the tolerance of the STForum members to certain types of posts is not necessarily shared by the "general internet public." In the past this has been amply demonstrated by people leaving the ST Forum community over what they considered to be outrageous, hurtful or derogatory posting. My point here is that we might have "self selected" an audience willing to put up with otherwise abhorrent behavior in order to gain something else of value.
That means it is possible that in a more general view of what goes on here, that some of the postings are so repugnant that individuals feel that action need be taken against the site.
You could ask yourself the question: if I had to pay to be a member of the STForum, would I be willing to directly support all of the content on STForum?
We actually don't have to answer that question, but the advertisers do...
|
|
crankster
Trad climber
No. Tahoe
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:24am PT
|
Ed, a lot of words, wise as usual, but - I'll ask again - why wouldn't you (as moderator) just make a rule that no racist comments are allowed on the site? If I'm an advertiser, I'd have no interest supporting a website forum without at least this bit of self-imposed "censorship".
Also, seems to me that this is moot point. Someone has threatened to send advertisers copies of Ron Anderson's posts he deems to promote violence against Latino & Muslim Americans. Step 1 might be to make sure this does not happen in the future. Chris can purse legal action if he wants on the letters already sent, but at least he'd have no further ones to deal with.
|
|
HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:29am PT
|
Crankster,
Put a sock in it. No one on this forum is a racist. (Except when Norton posted the picture of Obama with a bone in his nose and calling him a ni$$ar)
|
|
Brandon-
climber
The Granite State.
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:32am PT
|
For context,
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Edit; Really, Crankster, you should get off of your high horse and chill the f*#k out. I actually agree with you politically, but you waste people's time with your bitching and whining. Just shut up about politics and talk about climbing, and keep it that way. There are other forums for your whining.
|
|
HermitMaster
Social climber
my abode
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:42am PT
|
Stuff it yourself, Hermit. There are plenty of racist on this site - most hide, one doesn't. My opinion, of course.
Your Opinion, of course....So, let us all genuflect to it.....
No thanks....
|
|
this just in
climber
Justin Ross from North Fork
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:43am PT
|
Wow another crankster self appreciation thread. Have you called anyone a bully yet?
|
|
Gregory Crouch
Social climber
Walnut Creek, California
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:44am PT
|
I find the political threads so distasteful that ever since I was fool enough to read a few of them shortly after I joined, I have ignored them almost entirely. I suggest Mr. Winans do the same. But I wouldn't be in favor of imposing any forum censorship, either. From either the right or left. Unless it starts impacting your bottom line, then you'll have to choose. You do own it, after all.
|
|
skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:53am PT
|
Crankster. I doubt Brandon is going to respond because the guy has some real sense of what is going on here. Now, this quote from you is a great example of that.
Brandon, what the hell are you talking about??? Have you read the title of this thread??? It's not about climbing!!!! Read!!!!!! I'm addressing the subject matter and you're posting stupid time-wasting videos!!!!
You are choosing to refocus the thread (again) on comments like this, as opposed to responding to say Ed's well thought argument and comment on the previous page all the while ignoring the off topic comments. You have a choice. And you have chosen to argue with those who you are complaining about thereby dragging the further down that path and (in my opinion) bolstering their arguments. I really doubt you would get this response if you really stayed on topic...
|
|
skcreidc
Social climber
SD, CA
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 09:58am PT
|
^^^^figures you don't get it. Your choice.
|
|
Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
|
|
Jul 28, 2015 - 10:00am PT
|
First they came for him, and I was not that so I said no skin off my back...
Then they came a bit more aggressively and I said : well I do not want to get any of that on me. . . .
Then I saw that really good climbers with years more experience then I we're not coming back. . . .
Then they came for you but I never liked what you said, so eF that. . .
Know what ?
Now they say
No Small Rocks From Small rock Hell no Moderation - thinking what we want is freedom
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!