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jonnyrig
climber
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And speaking of evolution and healthcare, how about this theory:
We've created such an effective healthcare system as to usurp the natural law of evolution, allowing the weak to survive and breed, thus passing on and mixing flawed DNA. Thus, future generations will be sicker and require more extensive healthcare on a continuously expanding basis until the pace of illness outstrips that of the healthcare industry.
Then, the population self-corrects.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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Just for clarity on Closely Held Corporations.
In 2008, Forbes published a list of the US PHCs who have gross revenues of $1.0 BILLION or more.
It is 18 pages long, 25 CHC's per page. Nearly 450 big companies.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/21/privates08_Americas-Largest-Private-Companies_Rank.html
In 2013, Cargill is #1 with $137 Billion in revenues.
While America’s closely held companies aren’t all gigantic corporations, they constitute some 52 percent of the American workforce, and are responsible for an estimated 51 percent of the economic output of the nation’s private sector. Hobby Lobby and co-plaintiff Mennonite Conestoga Wood Specialties employee approximately 14,000 U.S. workers
Cargill said that it “plans to provide the same coverage we have been.” The food-service giant has 143,000 employees in 67 countries; this decision is relevant to their approximately 47,000 American workers. http://www.vanityfair.com/online/daily/2014/07/cargill-publix-hobby-lobby-ruling-birth-control
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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None of this applies to WalMart, Dr F.
Are you sure you're a doctor?
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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HT--is Walmart on the list you posted?
Can you explain why or why not for Dr. F's edification.
Fortmental--your post illustrates why repeating nonsense rather than reading the opinion (including the dissent) is just that (nonsense).
Ginsburg did indeed post examples of giant, "closely held corporations."
They don't include Walmart, and the Hobby Lobby decision doesn't include Walmart.
Ginsburg does speculate that the logic of Hobby Lobby could apply more broadly, but that doesn't change the holding.
From her dissent:
“Closely held” is not synonymous with “small.” Hobby Lobby is hardly the only enterprise of sizable scale that is family owned or
closely held. For example, the family-owned candy giant Mars, Inc.,
takes in $33 billion in revenues and has some 72,000 employees, and
closely held Cargill, Inc., takes in more than $136 billion in revenues
and employs some 140,000 persons. See Forbes, America’s Largest
Private Companies 2013, available at http://www.forbes.com/
largest-private-companies/.
FM--do you at least understand that there is a difference between the ownership of Mars and Walmart for this purpose?
If not, please say so and I'll try to explain later.
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2014 - 02:22pm PT
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Don't be stupid, Ward. That was an utterly feeble try to twist my words. Make a decent try if you're taking that approach. To me, it only tells you don't have anything sensible to say about what I wrote.
I'm a feminist.
"Human rights are women's rights, and women's rights are human rights."
You know, one of the
LOL
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Dr F writes:
"The birth control excemptions may not apply to them now, but it may in the future. No one knows for sure.
They are a closely held Company, and that was the question, correct?"
Do you have all your fingers, Dr F?
If so, stick out your hand and count them.
If the number of Walton Family members is greater than the number you found when you counted your fingers, then none of this applies to WalMart. That's what "five or fewer" means.
Are you sure you're a doctor?
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John Duffield
Mountain climber
New York
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Will be interesting to see where this teapot tempest goes. Is outrage sufficient that "Hobby Lobby" (I've never seen one) have negative business impact and start closing stores? Will women stop working there because their rights are curtailed?
Is the financial burden of birth control so excessive, their employees can't pay for it themselves? That's the issue. Not that they don't allow their employees to have it. That really would be an outrage.
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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The question in Hobby Lobby is to what extent a corporation can interfere with a government benefit on religious grounds.
If the benefit is a drug, Thats a problem.
If you must subscribe to a mandated policy that issues these drugs, Thats a problem!
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2014 - 02:36pm PT
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Hey Lollie, what part of the decision couldn't you comprehend?
Oh I comprehended it alright, but I thought it had to be a joke. I couldn't believe they have gone so far that they openly discriminate women on such a level.
It's uncomprehensible that a Supreme Court decides that
1) women's health care can be excepted on a religious basis
2) an entity as a company can hold religious beliefs
3) that religion is allowed to interfere with legislature
4) that only women's health care are given disadvantages
5) that only ONE religion is taken into consideration, if taking religiously based legal decisions
How long before you have christian sharia laws?
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2014 - 02:40pm PT
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Bruce Kay, :-)
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Walmart is a closely held company.
Period.
Depends on the context. Try telling that to the SEC in the context of the Securities and Exchange Act, the IRS in the context of the Internal Revenue Code, or the SCOTUS if the plaintiff were Walmart rather than Hobby Lobby. It think you'll find that your period doesn't occur without a bunch of caveats and exceptions.
That said, I share your concern about the scope of this ruling. While I understand the majority's argument, I fear the legal mischief this case can cause.
John
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Yea that's a nice breed lollie
welcome to the planet of the apes
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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My god are you ignorant.
Period.
(Dr. F.--I put a "period" (both the word and the dot) after my post, so that means I'm right. Please apologize now.)
FM--if you want to reduce your ignorance a bit, try to figure out the Ginsburg quite I posted above.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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"We all know there is a cure for poverty, it is a rudimentary one, it does work though. It works everywhere for the same reason. It's colloquially called 'the empowerment of women.' It's the only thing that does work. If you allow women some control over their cycle of reproduction so they are not chained by their husbands or by village custom to annual, 'animal-type' pregnancies, early death, disease... if you free them from that, give them some basic health of that sort, if you're generous enough to throw in a handful of seeds and a bit of credit, the whole floor - culturally, socially medically, economically - of that village, will rise."
[Click to View YouTube Video]
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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Wallmart doesn't offer healthcare at all!
why shouldn't another company be able to offer healthcare with restrictions?
Edit; That was a good one GDavis!
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 1, 2014 - 02:51pm PT
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BLUEBLOCR,
so you're against human rights and equality between the sexes?
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Wallmart doesn't offer healthcare at all!
wherever did you get that information?
of course they do, to certain employees, and the rest apply for your taxes paid Medicaid
because keeping costs down increases profits
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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i'm ALL about personal rights in the private sector!
And i think women should start opening the doors for men
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Not offering healthcare, and excluded agreed-upon standards of what healthcare means based on fundamentalism, are separate things.
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