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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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And just remember, if the death penalty is wrong because killing is wrong, then the government fining criminals is also wrong because stealing is wrong, and putting criminals in jail is wrong because kidnapping is wrong.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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I thought I'd also mention, as I have before, that I have actually set foot onto the most secure prison site at the time. Manson, and Sirhan were there.
Since then, I have slept very well, understanding exactly what precautions are taken and the security of the cell block where such prisoners are kept.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 1, 2014 - 10:52pm PT
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This is an old approach jingy, the post-modern revivalist view is the guillotine, but I would estimate that the elapsed time to expire numbers are close
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North
climber
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Ken, as a fireman, I've started a few IV's. Just being facetious.
Have a good day everyone. Go rock climbing for Pete's sake.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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And just remember, if the death penalty is wrong because killing is wrong, then the government fining criminals is also wrong because stealing is wrong, and putting criminals in jail is wrong because kidnapping is wrong.
Except no rational person would (or does) make that argument, that those are stealing or kidnapping.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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North, then you'd know how tenuous some lines can be. I don't understand why they would not use some sort of big-bore line into the femoral V, or even a central line...although those probably require a doctor, which is problematic as noted.
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Michelle
Social climber
1187 Hunterwasser
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toss the heads off El Cap after guillotining?
You'd get tooled and a fine.
Death penalty, overall, costs more than housing these folks for a lifetime.
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HighTraverse
Trad climber
Bay Area
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^^^ then there's the perfectly rational economic analysis
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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*For me* as a member of society: The death penalty isn't worth the financial, spiritual and, much more dubious, karmic cost. Do we all want to live in a society that kills enough people to make a difference in crime rates? Even if I could conceive such a dystopia, we're not close. Not even McVeigh.
Darwin
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Lollie
Social climber
I'm Lolli.
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In the Middle Ages we maimed, racked and matted people as punishment. Cut off body parts. Put the heads up on poles.
Didn't affect crimes much.
USA (some states) kill people who kill people. You also have among the highest homicide (the highest?) rates in the world. A very violent society in many ways.
Maybe it's simply a matter of actually start thinking and draw conclusions? And act upon it.
What's the goal? A safe and secure society to live in, isn't it?
If you're gunna die ahead of time, you want to do it yourself, right? You wanna decide yourself. Shot by a stranger (unchoice) or fall off El Cap (choice).
Level of risk should be a choice.
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John M
climber
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^^^^ oh man.. I can see it now. Some will interpret that to mean you/liberals would release all murders.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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I don't think we need to worry ourselves about "humane" ways to execute criminals. It's an oxymoron.
What we should REALLY be concerned about is making sure that our justice system is truly just and fair for all.
I don't think the goal of execution should be vengeance.
The basis for our form of government is the Social Contract. The preamble of the Declaration on Independence sums up the Social Contract quite nicely -
"We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness."
Along with rights comes responsibilities - the responsibility to obey the laws of the government.
So when people refuse to play nicely, simply remove them - permanently. In the olds days we used to be able to ship them off to a penal colony, but nowadays we should just put them 6 feet underground.
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2014 - 11:37am PT
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More ways than you can imagine. use your imagination or your Google Switch if necessary.
Blood Eagle
Columbian Necktie
Crucifixion
Upright Jerk(er)
Mazzatello
Premaure Burial
Dropping (In pre-Roman Sardinia, elderly people who were unable to support themselves were ritually killed. They were intoxicated with a neurotoxic plant known as the “sardonic herb” (which some scientists think is hemlock water dropwort) and then dropped from a high rock or beaten to death.)
Snake Pit
Crushing
Bestiarii (These were sent to their deaths naked and unable to defend themselves against the beasts. Even if they succeeded in killing one, fresh animals were continually let loose on them, until the bestiarii were all dead. It is reported that it was seldom necessary for two beasts to be required to take down one man. On the contrary, one beast frequently dispatched several men. Cicero mentions a single lion which alone dispatched 200 bestiarii.)
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Bestiarii! New on The Animal Planet! I'm a little tired of River Monsters.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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USA (some states) kill people who kill people. You also have among the highest homicide (the highest?) rates in the world. A very violent society in many ways.
Maybe it's simply a matter of actually start thinking and draw conclusions? And act upon it.
How ironic that someone who exhorts us to "actually start thinking" demonstrates stunning ignorance in her preceding paragraph.
Yes, it is true that the US has a significantly higher murder rate than Western Europe. But no, the US is nowhere close to having "among the highest homicide rate" in the world, much less the highest.
It's notable that the US has very different demographics than Western Europe. Anyone who looks at US homicide rates without acknowledging extremely different rates when broken down by demographics isn't interested in seeing what's really going on. The causes for this are no doubt complex and don't reflect well on the US and its history, but nevertheless, it "is what it is."
To state this is a simply as possible: if you are a random "cracker" (as the libs on this site seem to like to say) in most of the US, you are not in any particular peril, at least compared to most of the world.
Reminds me of a conversation I had with a young Canadian lady who drove deep into Mexico--when asked about danger, her response was that Mexico was "probably" safer than the US. I was glad to hear she made it there and back safely, but again, for whatever reason, many of you seem delusional about the actual homicide rates in different countries. (MX homocide rate is much, much higher, and as with the US, it's not at all uniform there--she was going to the extra dangerous part!.)
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zBrown
Ice climber
Brujo de la Playa
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Topic Author's Reply - May 2, 2014 - 12:40pm PT
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Why not create a penal colony on that BLM land in Nevada? I don't think humans would overgraze it.
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Sierra Ledge Rat
Mountain climber
Old and Broken Down in Appalachia
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And they came back to haunt us as Ozzies!
Actually, if you read about the prisoners who were sent to the penal colony in Australia, most of the infractions were utterly heinous crimes such as stealing half-a-pound of flour to feed a starving child.
Back in those days there was no such thing as a societal "safety net" and most of the prisoners banished to Australia were just stealing a little bit of food.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Back in those days, prisons were mainly used for holding someone until trial or execution. The idea of being sentenced to "do time" hadn't been thought of yet.
They executed horse thieves. And most other bad eggs, too. They needed some way to punish bread thieves, but nobody had the stomach to hang someone for stealing bread.
So the European thing to do was to send them away.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Sport climber
moving thru
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No wonder the Aussies are so great. The country is made up of people that did all they could to keep their families and themselves fed. When I followed the tennis circit they were among the nicest players around.
And now back to the killing fields.......
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