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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Topic Author's Reply - May 24, 2013 - 12:10pm PT
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I'll work on a TR soon...I want to go back and do it IAD...
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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May 24, 2013 - 12:58pm PT
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Mark- I think you are describing the effort part wrong. It's not about "not working hard" but about working smarter, not harder. By conserving energy on the hauls, you have more to exert on the wall. I think you realize which is more important, so just let all these traditionalist haulers continue to break their backs. They clearly don't and won't get it..
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Matt,
You pretty much have it. Don't worry about the ascender and pulley grinding against the Pro-Trax. In actual use, they will be far below. There is no advantage to them actually coming together like you show in your vid.
Also, that top biner is part of your hauling kit. You have a bag to hold the whole deal, don't you? That biner is what holds the whole kit together, in the bag, and then when you get to the anchor, clips it all to your hauling point.
See the purple bag behind the haul setup? The haul kit is never taken apart, it always stays on that biner, and is either being used or in that bag.
An important note here:
When you push down on the ascender, make sure you push down so that your Zed Cord runs through your system and is TIGHT to your belay loop. Remember, 2 to 1 mechanical advantage doubles both the advantages and the disadvantages. One inch of slack in the system will result in two inches of lost advantage.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
Watch this vid. Watch how I move the lower rope grab down as I stand up.
Other than that, you're looking good.
Ultimately, simply go out and buy the gear to set it up exactly as I have it in a photo up thread. You will never improve on my set up enough to make it worth dicking around with other pulleys and rope grabs. I've hauled 9 walls worth of gear with it now. Max Jones loves it and Cheyne Lempe thinks it's sweet.
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MattF
Trad climber
Bend, Or
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Cool. Thanks Mark - I really appreciate all the feedback/advice you give out here and on your website.
So the pulleys coming together as the ratchets come together is not important? I read one of PTPP's posts somewhere that they should. Just thinking, the only reason I can think of why it would be beneficial is that is makes sure there is minimum amount of stretchy components in the system.
Also, thinking more, I realized that I probably need better pulleys like you have in your setup. I'm looking at picking up probably the Petzl Partner. I can't tell from your pic, is that what you use for your top pulley? http://www.amazon.com/Petzl-P52A-Partner-Pulley/dp/B0035PQ8O4
The CMI original has real good efficiency so its tempting, but looking at it, I don't think I would be able to do the pulley spanning biner if I did it that way since the sheath on the CMI isn't shaped right for that. Maybe use one for the bottom pulley on the ascender? http://www.cmi-gear.com/catalog/pulleys/original2.asp
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Thanks.
Pete probably does emphasize that to have the minimum cord stretch but that's really splitting hairs. I wouldn't worry about it especially if you are using 7 mil as your Zed cord.
Yes, better pulleys. I spent a total of $100 on mine. Both are SMC pulleys. The top one has a 2" sheave and the other is 1.5". It's money very well spent, believe me.
Both of my pulleys are on this page. SMC Rescue Pulleys The 2" Single PMP and the Micro Single PMP.
Use that CMI pulley as your top pulley, it dictates the advantage more than the lower one.
BTW, I'll be in the Valley from Sept. 25th to Oct 18th. I'm giving a presentation at the Facelift on the 25th. I'd be happy to talk further about any of your soloing needs.
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MattF
Trad climber
Bend, Or
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Gotcha on the splitting hairs. I won't worry about it too much. Much bigger efficiency gains to be made in getting better pulleys I think. Plus if the upside-down ratchet ascender was a little lower, then I wouldn't have to reach so high to reset it as I'm standing up, which would help make that a bit less awkward.
The CMI original looks like a good pulley and is a bit cheaper, but the problem is that I couldn't do the pulley spanning biner with it.
I think I'll get a petzl partner for the top pulley. Its 91% efficient, whereas the CMI original is 93.3%, so they're pretty close. Then I can get a CMI original for the bottom pulley.
Oh, and I think I'm going to get a FISH beef bag to hold the haul kit. While I'm at it, I'm going to pick up a couple of the large beef bags which I was thinking of using as the solo-tag-rack bag and associated rope bag to hold the remainder of the lead rope in the continuous loop system. Do you think those large beef bags would be good for that? Big enough? Tough enough to be tagged up the pitch periodically?
Finally, I'm planning on being in the valley from sept 17 through early Oct. I'm planning on being up on the stone during your slideshow, but hopefully I can meet you at the bridge and buy you a cobra!
Thanks again for the advice! Also cool that you're just up the road from me... :-)
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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The Beef bags are great but I think they will wear holes dragging on rock with gear inside. One of the Metolius haul packs would be a better choice but now you're getting into a bigger and heavier bag.
I think on my next solo that I'm not going to tag anything more than the haul kit and haul line. In all of my solos I've only needed to tag for gear maybe once.
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MattF
Trad climber
Bend, Or
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Gotcha. I'm planning on soloing Muir Wall, so I won't need much of a pin rack (good thing too, but I don't really know what I'm doing with those funny metal spikey things just yet!), and I was kinda wondering about how useful it would be to have the extra tag bag if most of the pitches aren't going to be these monster many hour ordeals.
A couple points of clarification - you're still going to use the continuous loop system the same way, just without a tag-bag?
Also, you have your haul kit in a (small? medium?) beef bag. Are you going to keep it in that when you tag? I suppose you're still going to have to have the rope-bag and haul kit on a fifi with a slippery knot so when you tag it up you can re-hang it, right?
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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A couple points of clarification - you're still going to use the continuous loop system the same way, just without a tag-bag?
Also, you have your haul kit in a (small? medium?) beef bag. Are you going to keep it in that when you tag? I suppose you're still going to have to have the rope-bag and haul kit on a fifi with a slippery knot so when you tag it up you can re-hang it, right?
Yes, continuous loop but without the actually tag bag. I'll still tag up the haul kit, (in its medium Beef Bag), along with a rope bag, hung from the Petzl Fifi and made safe via the slippery knot.
Have fun on the Muir, it's on my schedule for the fall of 2014.
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thekidcormier
Gym climber
squamish, b.c.
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Feb 27, 2014 - 04:11am PT
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Bump for big mike.
Rumor has it he was spotted hauling kit in the little smoke bluffs this week.
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Big Mike
Trad climber
BC
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Feb 28, 2014 - 07:22pm PT
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Well sir, that rumor is true thanks to your loan of equipment! Thanks matty for starting this thread and Pete and Marc for their contributions!!
Kagaroo corner haul
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guyman
Social climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Feb 28, 2014 - 07:31pm PT
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Big Mike.... good to see your on the mend.
Broken Back stories don't always have a happy ending.
TR?????
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matty
Trad climber
under the sea
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 27, 2015 - 10:52pm PT
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BUMP for anyone with big loads on upcoming walls ;)
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dave729
Trad climber
Western America
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Apr 28, 2015 - 01:36pm PT
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If you don't try new stuff you'll miss out on
the healing magic of cussing at it when it jams.
And sometimes on those still windless nights in
late Sept you'll hear them far below, laughing at you from
the bridge.
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Vegasclimber
Trad climber
Las Vegas, NV.
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Apr 28, 2015 - 09:29pm PT
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Good bump Matty, thanks. The setup works well.
Allfrey turned me on to a little trick a while back, to hang some weight on the Basic or ascender you use as the pull. That way it resets itself and you don't have to pull down on it - pretty slick. Happy hauling!
Edit to add - I just saw Mark's comment about the Beef Bags upthread, and I can attest that holes wear in them pretty quickly when kept clipped to the haul setup. They are awesome bags, but I am probably going to trade that one out for a Metolius and see if that holds up better.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 28, 2015 - 10:27pm PT
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Yeah, you can hang some weight on the inverted ascender, and it will self reset.
But why would you want to do that?
If you leave the inverted ascender unencumbered, then you can put your hand on it, and using your hand you can lift yourself back up using a 2:1 mechanical advantage, every time you stand back up.
Much more efficient. Put your hand on the inverted ascender, and keep it there - try it!
Good points above about the importance of fine tuning everything to the nearest millimetre. You can really tweak the efficiency by minimizing stretch, and making sure everything comes together just so.
Note: You have to PRACTISE using this thing! It is NOT intuitive, nor it is EASY to learn! Do not wait until you get to the wall to figure out you don't know what the hell you're doing.
Instead, go to your local crag, and practise hauling rocks. Choose smooth and rounded rocks with no sharp edges, corners or points, and make damn sure your pig is well padded.
And when you get to the top of your haul, don't chuck the rocks off the cliff, nor leave them on top for someone else to chuck off. Instead, practise rapping with your extremely heavy pig.
And you DO know how to do that, right?
HINT: Do NOT hang your pig from your belay loop! Instead, your rap device goes ON the pig, and you clip into the pig and sit on the pig. This is called "riding the pig", and is not only the Better Way to rap with a very heavy load, it is the ONLY way to rap with a very heavy load - unless you plan on singing soprano in the boys' choir for the rest of your life.
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Cam Brown
Trad climber
Portland, OR by way of Valley Center, CA
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Jan 16, 2019 - 12:22pm PT
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Winter months in the PNW have me thinking about walls. I've always been able to haul 1-1 on several El Cap routes (I'm 6'1"/197 lb) but I would love to get some feedback on my first go at a 2-1 ratchet. I also experimented with a "frost draw" (wired #8 stopper actually) attached to the micro-trax but changed it up with the large carabiner in the upper pully that spans the pully down to the micro-trax. I have 7mil cord and the cheaper SMC pully low as it only rotates at half the rate of the upper and more efficient petzl pully. Judge away...
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Gobie
Trad climber
Northern, Ca.
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Jan 16, 2019 - 01:30pm PT
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Bump.
I have never had to haul 2:1...but then I never was 50. This system (check the Huddon/Richards set up) is perfected. Not much to improve.
PTPP...you are an asset. Knowledge is useless unless you have the ability to convey it. You do this well.
A young bull and an old bull were on top of a hill.
Looking down below was an entire herd of heifers.
The young bull says to the old bull, "Lets run down there and screw one of them."
The old bull replies, "Lets walk down there and screw them all."
Age is wisdom. Keep crushin'
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