Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 07:47pm PT
|
Mimi, your projection of your own stupidity onto my posts is beyond belief.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 07:49pm PT
|
I tried to diminish the role of conventional religion in this discussion. I specified evolution vs. divine intervention. There is a slight difference.
So many people are hung up bashing people/religions for believing in incidents that happened hundreds of years ago. I'm focusing on the current science of our existence and ancient concepts about these ideas.
Whatever you want to believe Leastly. Not my problem, tarbaby.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 07:54pm PT
|
Sorry Mimi,
This thread just gave a new home to the other thread, which has been going on since Largo started it a couple of years ago. Reading it has actual been one of the highlights of my day if I'm feeling lazy.
It has been a really thoughtful discussion with a lot of mutual respect and not too much flaming.
So this must seem very abrupt and divisive. You don't know that we all have a lot of practice.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 07:58pm PT
|
Sh#t, Reilly,
I was thinking the exact same thing earlier today. The Taliban are a perfect example of a right wing theocracy gone wild.
The poster child for a diverse and tolerant society.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 08:01pm PT
|
Roger that BASE.
Riley, the world is in the toilet. Will only get worse.
|
|
Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 08:03pm PT
|
Base, Riley is my vegan canuckian liberal alter-ego.
Kindly direct your comments on evolution to him.
Yours,
Reilly The Old Testament Relic (because it is so much easier)
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 08:12pm PT
|
Thanks for taking the time to type that Wyna.
While things may suck, I don't share Mimi's bleak view of the world. There is still much potential for turning things around. Humans can be pretty smart locusts... sometimes.
|
|
Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 08:20pm PT
|
Below, I post a remarkable video. What makes it remarkable is the person being interviewed, Frank Schaeffer. He was an evangelical minister, who along with his father, Francis Schaeffer, was at the center of the coalition between evangelicals and the republicans. It happened at their dinnertable.
I've heard him in person, and he has a remarkable tale to tell.
What he has to say here gives a very candid viewpoint about what is happening with respect to the topic of this forum.
[Click to View YouTube Video]
|
|
MH2
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 08:31pm PT
|
I wonder why that donini guy didn't listen to this donini guy before starting this thread:
the operable word for postulating a spiritual world is "faith." It makes no sense to argue against it because faith is "belief that does not rest on logical proof or material evidence."
|
|
prickle
Gym climber
globe,az
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 08:33pm PT
|
Right Wingers
They are against education
Rush Limbaugh rails against education all day long, they want Christian schools or home schooling to keep their cult in the dark, keep them stupid, traditional, ideological driven.
They hate it, not just because they know that smart people will reject their ideas, but because they don't like being part of the progressive, smart, cool crowd, like Hollywood and Universities.
They are rebels that want to go backwards as a culture.
yeah all the schools in the liberal dem controlled cities are stellar!
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 08:49pm PT
|
If your world view involves a superior being who designed and operates this world for your benefit, and deny the fact that most of the energy we use to sustain our food supply system (among other things) was formed millions of years ago and took millions of years to accumulate, you are incapable of making any decisions based on reality. You live in a delusional, fairy tale based world... which is fine, as long as your fairy tales don't influence policy that affects the rest of us.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 08:52pm PT
|
the fact that most of the energy we use to sustain our food supply system (among other things) was formed millions of years ago and took millions of years to accumulate
Wes, nice to see you're on board with this!
.....
The problem arises when multiple believes have to coexist in one society (country). Welcome to democracy. Here we try to create a set of rules that would maximize the number of happy citizens. And that is why it is important that people are well informed. In democracy a vote of a genius has the same weight as the vote of a fool. People that don’t believe in evolution, lack critical thinking (and/or information) and can be easily manipulated by others. Religion is the easiest way to manipulate people, because it does not need any proof. That is how democracy is killed.
+1
Beliefs matter.
Why more Americans cannot connect these dots - which aren't that far apart - is a mystery to me. Seems to me they lie squarely in the purview of so-called common sense.
.....
Riley, just too many GOOD points to comment on. TFPU.
|
|
mechrist
Gym climber
South of Heaven
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:00pm PT
|
HFCS, pretty sure I got 28 students to wake up and realize that too... even the ones who were texting most of the time sat up and took notice. I'm happy to say that was the one topic everyone adequately addressed on the final.
Why more Americans cannot connect these dots - which aren't that far apart - is a mystery to me.
Their lives are ruled by fear and insecurity... repackaged and relabeled as benevolence. They pray endlessly to a "benevolent" god who allows a mentally ill person kill 26 people in a school (etc), and then hold vigils where they pray to the same god for the souls of those who were lost, and then pray it will never happen again... which of course it does. How could they not be constantly terrified and insecure? Most religions and religious people are far too immature to properly function in the modern world, which is partially why we are in the mess we are in. Religion is functioning exactly as intended... keeping people scared, insecure, and dependent.
But that's just like my opinion man.
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:14pm PT
|
It's not that my world view is that negative, it's just that by the time the world gets the picture and tries to fix the situation, a lot of damage will be done. Way too much ignorance and inertia regardless of the political position, it's human nature in the time of the Kali Yuga. What Werner mentioned earlier about 432,000 years...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kali_Yuga
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:26pm PT
|
Dr. F, why are you so hung up on taxes? That won't solve the problem if we don't cut spending.
As I recall, Clinton did a pretty good number on science funding when he first got in.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:39pm PT
|
EH, I used "nuclear" (or is it nucular or nooclur these days, lol) or "theoretical" mostly as a contrast to engineering physics that deals with energy and forces also - mostly at the macro level. You know, the mechanical advantage we have in cams, the energies accumulated and dissipated in a falling climber, the developing stress waves, impulse profiles in a tightening rope, torque on a bolt, etc..
Language and labels what they are, not the best choice, I know. Tell me your favorite self-designation and I'll use it.
At times though, as you know, it is important to draw a distinction between the different branches of physics; it is not all entirely quantum or subatomic. Also as you know, engineering - mechanical, civil, electrical and more recently and excitedly bio- easily reduces to physics, too. Engineering isn't "just" an applied science; in many and various aspects it is straight-up science as any other.
Back to the thread subject elicited by your essayistic post (a worthy one) concerning "basic" science or "pure" science as you called it - as others too pointed out, much of late 19th century discoveries or inventions or improvements in AMERICA were clearly of, in and for science - which was the point I tried to emphasize, that's all.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:40pm PT
|
I'm with Mimi, and she ain't no dumby.
Did you finally get your doctorate, Mimi? It was population genetics or something really elite.
Yeah, the USA is indeed sort of imploding because of what has happened to the Republican Party. They are caught up in a game of making the other guy look bad and are willing to take the country down the toilet as a mild side effect. It is totally unlike anything that I've ever seen, or remember from any history class.
After LBJ passed the civil rights bills, the south went from solid Democrat to Republican. So all of the racists became Republicans.
With the advent of a truly powerful and wildly popular set of high school graduate, draft dodging, ex-disc jockies, and a ruthless Australian Tabloid publisher, the Republicans have been able to now create a fully independent reality for themselves, reassuring each other at every bend and turn. If it were just politics, this wouldn't be such a big deal, but it has turned into that thing I hate: willful ignorance. If you aren't with them, you are against them, and the gray area has dried up like rat sh#t in an old basement.
People, the Right now has their entire world caught up in this metastatic ass boil, something like Ebola of the frontal lobes, and their sole purpose is to do one of three things:
1) Make the left look bad, and the definition in this age would place Goldwater as Obama's basketball partner.
2) Purge the party of anyone who thinks that the good old USA has done anything but good deeds throughout history.
Limbaugh: the liberals want us to apologize to those raped and murdered nuns in El Salvador. They hate America!!!
3) Create a legislative model that is incapable of governing. They don't pass even the housekeeping legislation lest they get called out by one of their unelected masters like Grover Norquist or the NRA. Their clothing and haircuts are more important than taking care of business.
It is like the Republican Party got together and donated their brains to science. This would of course be impossible, since they don't believe in science, but you get my drift.
Not only is this unf*#kingbelievably weird, but when the Tea Party showed up with shanks to stick in their backs, they all started climbing over each other to see who could be the "most conservative."
I assume that involves something like poking a long stick in one ear. If it comes out of the other side without any goo on it, then they are fit to serve.
As for science, I just typed three words into Yahoo. YOU CAN DO IT, TOO! Republican Science Satan
The result is this guy, Rep Paul Broun of the Republican controlled House Science Committee: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/10/06/paul-broun-evolution-big-bang_n_1944808.html
There is also a cool page on some website called theageofblashemy.com and is an absolute must read:
http://theageofblasphemy.wordpress.com/2012/10/06/republican-taliban-satan-behind-big-bang-evolution-and-embryology/
Everyone knows that those heathens the Chinese are kicking our asses at science and technology now. They are building their own space station. We have the Westboro Baptist Church and Ted Nugent, and they damn sure ain't liberals.
Ahhhh. In 100 years there will be 100 billion people on the planet and no gas. I say party while you can.
|
|
High Fructose Corn Spirit
Gym climber
-A race of corn eaters
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:43pm PT
|
I'm with Mimi, and she ain't no dumby.
In what respect, though?
On this thread, she seemed quite dismissive of beliefs (either the concept of a belief or the application of a belief) having any role in the difficulties our country and world are having in reaching consensus or coming together to get something done. Beliefs are behavioral drivers. Beliefs are not inconsequential.
It is a good thing to point this out. It is a good thing to debate citizens of a democracy that aspires to greatness who express themselves as though one belief is not any better or worse than another.
.....
Time to watch 60 Minutes now. Topic: Applied bioengineering!
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:47pm PT
|
I saw a funny poll the other day.
Some poll asked conservatives if they thought that ACORN had stolen the election for Obama.
50% said yes.
Acorn went bankrupt in 2010.
|
|
BASE104
Social climber
An Oil Field
|
|
|
Dec 30, 2012 - 09:48pm PT
|
No. Mimi is smart, but taking the long view.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!